I wasn't shocked by the
sales numbers for season 4, based on the amount of people who ordered through my site, which was tiny compared to last year.
CHUCK was 13th on the weekly list with
45,257 units sold generating
$1,538,285 in revenue for WB. To put that into perspective, it probably wouldn't pay for the cost of a single episode and is about how much NBC collects in ad revenue for a single episode.
Where is the fandom? Where is this strong fan base? To put it into yet another perspective, these DVD numbers are
LESS THAN HALF a
41% drop when compared to season 3 week-1 sales. Seasons 2 and 3 weren't as far apart in week-1 sale (23%), but season 4 sales are a departure from even the ratings trend between seasons. So what gives? Why didn't you order? And more importantly,
why didn't you order through my site?!
UPDATE: Week 2 Sales - 15,423
You know what's even more unbelievable? How many people felt the need to own "Zookeeper". Just...what? The promos were horrible.
ReplyDeletePeople like their entertainment stupid, simple, and... oh, stupid again.
ReplyDelete45k is not less than a half of 75k that season 3 had. And they are on par with season 1 sales.
ReplyDeleteSiemon
The DVD number I have from last season is over 90K for week 1. Where did you get 75k from?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.the-numbers.com/dvd/charts/weekly/2010/20100912.php
ReplyDeleteSiemon
That is strange... I even have different numbers for SMALLVILLE. Well, until I get better confirmation I will strike that portion out.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the link.
Yeah but to be fair ... how well does the season 4 DVD set of ANY show do compared to the earlier seasons? I would imagine that a drop off is normal to some extent ... but not sure if this drop off is steeper than it is for many other shows?
ReplyDeleteAnyway I bought it, of course. But I wasn't, like, waiting and clamoring for it like I was back when the season 2 DVD was released. So maybe once a show gets into its 4th season, the excitement just dies down a bit. I do hope people get around to buying this though ... maybe they're just slower to the punch this time ...
Oh and I somehow didn't realize that I could buy it through this site (sorry I guess I haven't been paying attention lately!) :-\ Please forgive me ...
I think it is awesome that people are finding ways to excuse crap sales. Why not just speak the truth? The reason for the significant drop in sales is because... go ahead, who is brave enough to finish that sentence?
ReplyDeleteAs for not buying it through this site, Maryploppins, I am not the kind to forgive, especially when it keeps food out of my children's mouths!!!
ReplyDeleteThankfully, I have no children.
Hahahah man, the thought of your imaginary children starving to death IS pretty heartbreaking. I will donate some money to your cause to try to make up for it. ;-)
ReplyDeleteI don't look at my comment as an "excuse" for bad sales, just an attempt at an explanation. Maybe I'm just a pessimist (actually I most definitely am a pessimist, there was never any doubt about that).
As for this sentence, "The reason for the significant drop in sales is because..." I'm assuming you're expecting the rest of the sentence to be "because it sucked" or something of that nature. That's certainly NOT how I would finish the sentence though ... my full sentence would be more complicated than that. ;-) My ranking of the seasons from best to worst would be: 2, 1, 4, 3. But NONE of them were bad, they were all still very entertaining to me. I think the DVD thing is more than that though. I think even if you really really LOVE something, the novelty of it still kinda wears off after a while. You still love it, but you just might not be clamoring and salivating over it as much as you used to. :-P So I'm just wondering if that's why people are slow on the uptake for the S4 DVDs.
On a related but slightly different topic: I have this weird feeling in the back of my mind that I almost want season 5 to NOT be that great, because if it IS great ... I will be insanely sad when it's over. Sniffle sniffle. :'-( But if it winds up just being "pretty o.k." then I will still be sad, but not quite so devastated when it all ends.
No, I expect an HONEST answer, not a fanboy/girl type spin answer.
ReplyDeleteAnd I don't think you have to worry about season 5 being too great.
"I think even if you really really LOVE something, the novelty of it still kinda wears off after a while. You still love it, but you just might not be clamoring and salivating over it as much as you used to."
ReplyDeleteProbably... but you know, we have people running around proclaiming the CHUCK fandom to be so "strong" and "passionate" but it is BS. Sure, there are individuals who are passionate but the fandom strength is an illusion.
Browncoats are truly hardcore. Those nuts bought MILLIONS of DVDs for a show that had been cancelled, and later a movie that had bombed at the box office. That is serious dedication. We don't have it. Hell, Smallville, a show with much lower ratings, obviously has a stronger loyalty base.
Well, I may be a fangirl, but I don't spin sh*t. When I say that season 4 was my 3rd favorite of all 4 seasons, and that I thought it was entertaining but not the best ever, that is my honest opinion. Not sure what more I can say than that.
ReplyDeleteAnd I am NOT the type to be "overly polite" or nice when describing something related to one of my favorite shows either. Examples: I have been a major Dexter fangirl in the past, but seasons 3 and 5 were mostly piles of steaming sh*t. Alias was my favorite show of all time, but everything after season 2 was an abomination from the depths of hell. Season 3 of Sons of Anarchy made me want to throw my t.v. out the window and stab every female character on the show for being so pathetic and weak. But season 4 of Chuck? It was bumpy. It had its great eps and its eps that were pretty crappy. But the season overall was still fun and entertaining, so I would never rate the season as a whole as sh*t. I would rate it as, "pretty fun but not great." That's as honest as I can be.
Thanks for the prediction about season 5 ... I found the couple clips I saw to be really funny. I had to stop watching them though, because I didn't want to spoil myself too much.
Whedonites are frightening. They are the purest manifestation of fanboy/girl.
ReplyDeleteThanks for that website, by the way. It made me sad though, to look back to the week Parks & Recreation was released and see it hadn't even cracked the list. Why can't this show find an audience?
I think season 4 has some great episodes but other episodes are lazy. It has the best bad guy but the worst resolution to the bad guy story. It has the biggest Chuck and Sarah moments, but rarely delivers the weight of those moments as in previous seasons.
ReplyDeleteSo, season 4 is the weakest of the seasons but I don't think that is the main reason for the weak DVD sales. Fans eat up crap and apologize for it. So, the problem is a deeper rooted one.
The illusion of strength within fandoms.
Sorry just read your second comment, after I posted my most recent one.
ReplyDelete"Probably... but you know, we have people running around proclaiming the CHUCK fandom to be so 'strong' and 'passionate' but it is BS. Sure, there are individuals who are passionate but the fandom strength is an illusion."
Agreed; at this point it's definitely an illusion. It was there at the height of the "save the show" campaign right at the end of season 2, but it died down real fast a few eps into season 3. Then it slowly trickled down after that. Now it's just a relatively small-ish group of us die-hards.
As for Parks' sales... I have no idea what went wrong there. I guess it is a show people watch and then feel no need to ever watch again.
ReplyDelete"It has the biggest Chuck and Sarah moments, but rarely delivers the weight of those moments as in previous seasons."
ReplyDeleteUGGH, SO TRUE!!!! And it annoyed the crap out of me. Anyway I am finally going to bed now ... how the hell are you still up Magnus, isn't it like 4am your time?? LOL ... hopefully you get some sleep tonight (or maybe you're already up for tomorrow, haha). Nighty night everyone.
Oh and Supernatural, with its 1.0 rating (and less) sold 123,906 units of season six in the first week.
ReplyDeleteI'm glad you mentioned all of this Magnus because it's the truth.
ReplyDeleteChuck fans are not as loyal as fans of a lot of other shows have been.
So when i hear from Chuck fans that Chuck has a loyal fanbase I roll my eyes.
How am I still awake? I DON'T SLEEP!
ReplyDeleteSeriously, ask the people who know me. If you can find them. I sleep like 2-hours.
"Chuck fans are not as loyal as fans of a lot of other shows have been.
ReplyDeleteSo when i hear from Chuck fans that Chuck has a loyal fanbase I roll my eyes."
Yep, everyone rides Wendy Farrington's brilliant coattails and then takes credit for "saving CHUCK" when she literally did it all by herself (well, with Zac's help).
"As for Parks' sales... I have no idea what went wrong there. I guess it is a show people watch and then feel no need to ever watch again."
ReplyDeleteHeh. Aww.:)
Meanwhile, I'm baffled by The Big Bang Theory's popularity. I can't sit through that show for five minutes while I wait for anything else to come on, much less repeated viewings. I feel very disconected from the world at large after seeing some of those figures.
Mind you, I love Parks.
ReplyDeleteAs for TBBT, I like it. I love it sometimes. And out of all the CBS half-hour comedies, it is the one I find isn't full of canned laughter. But I also understand why people don't like it. Unlike CHUCK or NEW GIRL, I can feel the factor within it that repulse some away from it.
CBS for me is just a wasteland of shows I wish I could like because they are soooo popular, but I just can't. I've really tried but something in me is repulsed, to use your word, I feel like I've heard the jokes before I've heard them y'know. They feel like throwbacks, I guess, when all I want is different. Their my mother's sitcoms, in a way.
ReplyDeleteYep... I feel like almost every show on CBS could have its writers replaced by any writers from any other CBS show and no one would notice.
ReplyDeleteExactly. I wasn't sure if I was explaining myself well.
ReplyDeletePerhaps the reason for the low sales is iTunes/Amazon on demand. I bought the episodes as they came out during the season, but also bought the Blu-ray justtosupport the show.
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, the Magnus sleep mystery is solved. I had noticed that you were online a lot but 2 hours of sleep? Impressive ninja skills.
ReplyDeleteBummer that people aren't buying the DVDs. I know season 4 wasn't the greatest, but fans ought to support the show. Well, I already had the impression that the fandom was less "active"/rabid nowadays.
As a supporter of the show I bought the DVD, but the old fashioned way in a store here in Europe (sorry Magnus, had I ordered it by amazon it would had gotten stuck in customs).
Regarding CBS: I really really hate all their comedies beside TBBT and HIMYM. I am also sometimes annoyed by TBBT (mainly by it's ever more present Chuck-Lorre-trademark scatological jokes and too obvious punchlines) but usually enjoy it. And even though HIMYM is not what it was during it's first seasons, well I still have fun. All other CBS comedies irritate me to Whitney levels - and that is NOT good.
Remember when two and a half men and CSI swapped writers for an episode? I could not tell the difference in quality, they were both good episodes that were funny (Fish in a drawer) and sad (two and a half deaths) but it is kinda sad that two shows on CBS could do that and no one really noticed, lol.
ReplyDeleteAs for season 4...I think that in a serialised show with a story if you can connect the characters path through the seasons then the seasons are gonna be great. For example, Breaking Bad: There is a straight line you can draw for Walter White to chart his progress..he became a meth dealer because he had cancer and needed to make money - he was a school teacher because of his pride and walking away when he felt slighted - he continued to be a meth dealer because of that same pride not to accept Elliots and Gretchen help - he is a wimp deep down and that is why he keeps Jesse around - he is stubborn and petty and so let jane die - that led to the plane crash - that same pride made him go back to Gus for a job in a super lab - that made him say to Hank that Hiesenberg is still out there. SEE! it all connects.
With Chuck I think a lot of it connects well...Chuck worked at the buymore for years unhappy - he became an asset and spent 2 years trying to get the intersect out of his head because he wanted to be normal - Bryce tells him the truth and so organically he decides not to be a loser and make something of his life and make up for lost time to become a spy.
But then when him and Sarah got together I kinda lost Chuck's agency and motivation, the same with Sarah and Casey. In season 4 there was less of a connection for me to the 3 seasons that proceeded it. Everyone was mostly happy because Chuck and Sarah was happy, lol. I can see why Fedak and Schwartz were so uneasy about ending the will they wont they part of the story...Chuck kinda lost its driving force, I mean Chuck at the end of season 3 was a spy/hero with a career and future who got the girl. The mom story was mentioned in season 1 but was never really part of his redemption..his dad was more important to that and so his story ended really in season 3 and so I can see why season 4 seems weak. The same with season 5...Where does Chuck and Sarah and Casey go now..they kind of achieved what they wanted some time ago....this is like HIMYM..you have a premise and a journey and when they try to extend it..the journey becomes weaker.
This is why the only thing they should try and do this season is make sure the Chuck and Sarah relationship works, I do not say that as a shipper, I say that as a fan who recognises that that story is the only constant (over 5 season) arc the show has left. The rest is meh.
It's my personal philosophy that when I really love a TV show, I financially support it. I bought the DVD even though I already bought all the episodes on iTunes.
ReplyDeleteI doubt a lot of people who did not buy the DVD are going to be brave enough to raise their hands, but some thoughts:
1. DVD sales in general are down. It's similar to ratings erosion in a way.
2. One thing the DVD's have that iTunes didn't is the deleted scenes and extras. But, I noticed all of those were available on YouTube prior to the DVD launch.
3. I notice fans now are posting scenes from the DVD's on YouTube. If you are a fan of, say, Chuck and Sarah, you can find almost every Chuck and Sarah scene online at the touch of a button. It's easier than buying the DVD and trying to fast forward to some key scene they are looking for. Why people who say they are fans of the show are so anxious to make it easier for people NOT to buy the DVD is beyond me.
Their a good reason for it to be down cause everything else is down as well. The economy is bad and people like me dont have the money to buy it. I can barley buy food. Only reason movie do well are because of high dollar 3D and ticked sales.
ReplyDeleteIt not an excuse either. It the truth. Think people are going to buy a TV show when they cant afford food.
ReplyDelete"Browncoats are truly hardcore. Those nuts bought MILLIONS of DVDs for a show that had been cancelled, and later a movie that had bombed at the box office. That is serious dedication. We don't have it. Hell, Smallville, a show with much lower ratings, obviously has a stronger loyalty base."
ReplyDeletewow! isn't that just a little ridiculous? I mean that's nice, but why do you have to try to prove yourself so badly even though you know it's not gonna make a diffrence.. I'm not saying there's no sense in buying the DVD, I mean I bought it. but why would you buy 10 copies?? Doesn't mean you'r any less loyal if you don't (if there is no way it's gonna make a difference) What are you gonna do with all those? God, give the money to charity instead!
Plus Firefly only went for 13 episodes...Chuck has gone for 78! So the desire to see more story is kinda not there anymore. The Journey has ended...set the actors free!
ReplyDeleteCan I ask a more technical question of our media-savy posters? Does this have a big impact on Chuck in terms of syndication afterwards. I'd wager a guess that it means WB would have a tougher time selling the show, but I'm not an expert in the area. Does it mean other things like less Season 4 episodes in syndication because networks presume, based on the comparative DVD sales, that it's not as popular?
ReplyDelete"wow! isn't that just a little ridiculous? I mean that's nice, but why do you have to try to prove yourself so badly even though you know it's not gonna make a diffrence.. I'm not saying there's no sense in buying the DVD, I mean I bought it. but why would you buy 10 copies?? Doesn't mean you'r any less loyal if you don't (if there is no way it's gonna make a difference) What are you gonna do with all those? God, give the money to charity instead!"
ReplyDeleteYeah, I'm really going to have to agree with you. As much as I love the show, I can't say there will ever come a time when I look back and think "I wish I would have spent several hundred dollars more on it". I have one copy of all 4 seasons and that all I need.
If you go to the right charity organization, a couple hunderd dollars could change a life.
I'll raise my hand and admit I haven't bought it - yet. My reasons are simple:
ReplyDelete1.Can't afford it right now.
2.Saw the deleted scenes & extras on YouTube - and I'm disappointed. I buy these for the extras and deleted scenes are the biggest selling point for me. I wonder where the footage of the Chuck/Mom conversation from the wedding day went or all the extra bikinis Sarah tried on. (Yeah, pipe dream I know) Anyway, it seemed to be .... lacking.
I will buy it - cause I can't hold them on my DVR forever and someday I'll want to veg out in front of it all. But I'll wait for a sale at this point. If sales are that off, there should be some good ones at Target & Walmart.
That said, I'm waiting for someone to blame this on The Morgansect or Shaw.
Come on - you know it's coming.
"wow! isn't that just a little ridiculous? I mean that's nice, but why do you have to try to prove yourself so badly even though you know it's not gonna make a diffrence"
ReplyDeleteNo, Amy, that is not the point. I'm saying that people need to stop pretending the CHUCK fandom is some massive power base of fans.
"1. DVD sales in general are down. It's similar to ratings erosion in a way."
But not a 40% erosion and that is the problem for CHUCK.
"The economy is bad"
And yet Starbucks keeps on selling $4 coffees. Come on, stop with this crap.
"Think people are going to buy a TV show when they cant afford food. "
Like 40% of CHUCK fans suddenly this year had to make that choice. Go away drama queens.
Gina, did you see how many DVDs SUPERNATURAL sold? These are weak arguments.
Peter has a point about the lacking quality of the extras, but were they better last year? I don't recall that they were any better.
ReplyDeleteNevertheless--as he indicated--even if the extras were better, they would have been on youtube.
Another missing "deleted scene" that would have been great was Sarah and Morgan playing the video game.
Panda, I don't think DVD sales and syndication correlate exactly. But I wouldn't be shocked if potential buyers look at it as a measuring stick for potential success in acquiring CHUCK.
ReplyDeleteI was a little disappointed in last years deleted scenes too. We know from the EPKs and interviews last year that there were more possibilities - Sarah & Shaw discussing the trip to Washington on the their balcony at the resort for instance. (Not that everyone would want that, but I would have. Might have given me more insight - maybe not). And yes, Sarah & Morgan playing the video game this year would have made purchase worthwhile. But still, last year I bought not knowing this. Now I do and I'll wait - I'll buy, but I'll wait.
ReplyDeleteAnd Magnus, you are right - the Chuck fandom is NOT a massive power base of fans. Hasn't been for a while. Too splintered. Too many people upset that their expectations weren't met and holding onto them for too long. Just look at other Chuck sites that have a large number of comments posted for a thread - how many of those posts are from the same three people? I'd count, but it just doesn't matter.
This season, as in the last two, I'm going to spend the time enjoying the little show I love - cause when it's gone, I will miss it.
"I'm saying that people need to stop pretending the CHUCK fandom is some massive power base of fans."
ReplyDeleteI don't even see why people make this arguement anymore. This show loses millions of viewers every season, during the actual season. Its kind of amazing, trajectory wise. I think what the DVD sales say is we lost alot of actual hardcore fans this season and that most viewers are more casual in nature towards the show.
People make the argument because they just repeat what they hear. And I am including the media in this. They think "oh, those fans 'saved' the show! They must be a very strong base!"
ReplyDeleteBut in the end, it was one great idea and one girl who didn't just let it remain an idea in her head or on the Internet, that then allowed thousands of fans to suddenly claim credit for having done NOTHING.
And every year they continue to prove that point.
It was a great idea and born from a true love of the show. But fans have sort of taken possesion of it, and sort of perverted in a way. Now its like "I bought a freaking sandwich, so give me the exact show I want in my head, regardless of what it will do to the quality of the show."
ReplyDeleteIts used as a free pass to be a douche sometimes, I feel.
Bingo. Well said, Sue.
ReplyDeletePoorly spelled but very well said.
Heh. Right, I need a proof reader. Or a dictionary with me at all times.:)
ReplyDeleteDictionary.com is your friend. :)
ReplyDeleteTrue.
ReplyDeleteI think I've become too reliant on spell check. Sooo much money towards college this year, my mom would be p***ed.
TBH, I'm not buying this because I am waiting/saving money for the eventual "Complete Series" set once Season 5 is finished. I'm assuming some (or at least, a few) fans are on the same boat.
ReplyDeleteYou are literally sitting there, saving money for the CHUCK series box set? Really? What are you saving a penny a day for FIVE YEARS?!
ReplyDeletelol, I meant the term "saving" as in not wasting money by buying the same episodes twice, rather than putting a quarter in the Chuck piggy bank whenever I get money.
ReplyDeleteWe waste tons more money on consumables we don't need (like Starbucks, McDonalds, Dunkin Donuts) but save up for things we can actually resell or give away.
ReplyDeleteSo you're defining wasting money in terms of spending on things we do not need and saving money in terms of necessities. In which case, buying Chuck DVDs (Season 4 by itself, or a series set) would fall into the first category. So for me, I would like to "waste" as little money as possible, if that makes sense.
ReplyDeleteExcept buying a DVD set is an investment in prolonged entertainment that can eventually be sold or given as a gift. It is an ASSET. Unnecessary consumables are not assets. They are calorie liabilities.
ReplyDeleteDamn, Magnus. That's some ninja economics schooling right there.
ReplyDeleteI really don't expect this to appear on the site but I know you'll read it and it aimed completely at you. Why the hell isn't my earlier post present on your site? There was no flaming, baiting, trolling, expletives, or racism and there was no discussion of the actor's personal lives. I simply stated the obvious truth that only an idiot would pay for something and have to wait months for the privilege when he can get it immediately for free online by downloading from pirating sites. Its a reasonable observation. Each episode is downloaded tens of thousands of times by people all over the world. If that isn't relevant to the conversation why the hell did you leave all the comments about the economy?
ReplyDeleteScenario A:
ReplyDeleteBuy Season 4 DVD at $x. When the time comes, resell it at 80% (generous) of the price you paid (or, .8x) and buy the series set at $y.
Total Net = Starting amount - x + .8x - y
Total Net = Starting amount - .2x - y
Scenario B:
Don't invest in Season 4 DVD. Buy complete series set at $y.
Total Net = Starting amount - y
Unless you can sell your used Season 4 DVD for more than you bought it new (which I consider unlikely), you will always have more money (which is also an asset) by not 'investing' in the S4 DVD.
Chuck lost 14% of its Live + 7 day viewers in Season 4 vs. Season 3. If you calculate the loss of viewers among those who DVR'd the show--those you'd think are the most loyal--the drop in viewers was only 10%.
ReplyDeleteI don't know how DVD sales are trending this year, but I believe the drop last year was in the 10% range (give or take a few points).
The economy was just as bad last year as this year. The average household income of "18-49" Chuck viewers is about $73,000 per year.
But, I will say that the relationship between DVD sales and success in syndication may actually be a negative correlation. The shows that have been successful are shows like Law & Order and NCIS, while famous "fan" shows like Lost have not done well at all.
Networks look for "repeatability" in TV shows they buy for syndication. That is the ability of a show to repeat over and over and maintain its rating.
I remember when TNT paid a fortune for the rerun rights to ER and it didn't get good ratings at all in syndication. It's known as one of the worst deals ever.
"Unless you can sell your used Season 4 DVD for more than you bought it new (which I consider unlikely), you will always have more money (which is also an asset) by not 'investing' in the S4 DVD. "
ReplyDeleteFallacy of the predetermined outcome. If you didn't buy the S4 DVD, would you have actually saved that money, or spent it on unnecessary consumables?
Saved it, if you define unnecessary consumables as calorie liabilities.
ReplyDelete"Why the hell isn't my earlier post present on your site?"
ReplyDeleteI have no idea... perhaps you have been dropped into the spam folder before and the system automatically moved you there based on your IP. I didn't delete any comments in this thread.
"only an idiot would pay for something and have to wait months for the privilege when he can get it immediately for free online by downloading from pirating sites"
Pirating isn't suddenly dropping CHUCK DVD sales by 41%. Pirating didn't explode in 1-year.
Why not purchase? Because I LEGALLY purchased a season pass on iTunes.
ReplyDeleteHow does that help me?
ReplyDeleteI didn't buy it because of the ugly, mismatched box art. The box art for this Season 4 set is so abysmal.
ReplyDeleteWhy is Season 1 Morgan on that cover? WHY?!
I want this box art:
http://www.target.com/p/Chuck-The-Complete-Fourth-Season-5-Discs/-/A-13587258
If I can find THIS box art, I will buy it. FO SHO!
First world people problems...
ReplyDeleteInstead of finding theories related to economy crisis and God knows what else wouldn't it be easier to admit and accept Chuck has been on a decline after season2 ? that made some viewers and hardcore fans to loose their interest in the show and some of them even quit the show
ReplyDeleteMaybe no one is saying that there was a decline because, and this may come as a shocker, they don't share your opinion. I know I don't.
ReplyDeleteI think season 3 (yes, including parts of the first half) and especially 4 were clearly better than season 1 and better on average than season 2. My own viewing history with Chuck: I tuned in to a couple of episodes in season 1, lost interest and never tuned in again until the end of season 2. I liked what I saw, continued watching and then backtracked to fill in the gaps.
Here's a final thought: quality and popularity don't necessarily coincide.
Jim
Each to their own but for your theory to be true it has to be shared by a majority and have some logic to it
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately for you all proof indicate opposite to what you are trying to say :
- Chuck budget cuts started after season2 therefore the quality clearly drops starting with season3
- fan uproar in season3 that made Schwartz & Fedak come out and assure the fans things will change for the better
- The ratings drop after "The Mask" aired continuing with "Fake Name" and kept on sinking
- ETC
So while everyone is entitled to have his own opinion unless you can find a way to explain how a show quality improves when they have less money and less time to shoot the episodes
or to explain how a fan uproar is the way fans are saying they are satisfied with the show you might want to consider your theory might be true for you but not for the majority of viewers and in the bigger scheme the majority counts
"Each to their own but for your theory to be true it has to be shared by a majority and have some logic to it"
ReplyDeleteIt's not a theory. It's a supposition as it relates to the people posting on Magnus' site and a statement of fact as it relates to me. I made no attempt to extend this to the broader viewing audience.
"- Chuck budget cuts started after season2 therefore the quality clearly drops starting with season3"
Budget cuts generally mean lower production values. Lower production values do not necessarily mean a reduction in quality of acting, storytelling or overall entertainment. They may make the show less appealing to a broad audience, but that's nothing to do with me.
"- fan uproar in season3 that made Schwartz & Fedak come out and assure the fans things will change for the better"
The supposed fan uproar is from a tiny self-selecting portion of the audience, namely the portion active online. Show me any evidence that there was a widespread uproar outside that group.
"- The ratings drop after "The Mask" aired continuing with "Fake Name" and kept on sinking"
I'll leave it to others to comment on actual ratings, but I believe this argument has been repeatedly discredited.
"So while everyone is entitled to have his own opinion unless you can find a way to explain how a show quality improves when they have less money and less time to shoot the episodes "
Do you know what a strawman argument is? If not, you might want to consult a dictionary. You might also want to take a moment or two to make sure you actually understand what's being said before you respond to it. In any event, this is fast going to devolve into ad hominem nonsense, so I'm out.
Jim
Whew, I'm finally back to check this thread, work was crazy today, not much time for surfing, heheh. Few comments:
ReplyDeleteRazorback said... "Oh and Supernatural, with its 1.0 rating (and less) sold 123,906 units of season six in the first week."
Well my goodness. There you go, that certainly does help to prove the fandom theory. I do also wonder if S6 of Supernatural was considered to be a "super awesome" fan-favorite season or something (I don't watch it so I don't know). Where as S4 of Chuck was fun but I don't think many ppl would call it their favorite, or the best thing since sliced bread.
Razorback said... "But in the end, it was one great idea and one girl who didn't just let it remain an idea in her head or on the Internet, that then allowed thousands of fans to suddenly claim credit for having done NOTHING."
Magnus, would you and Wendy just get married already!? Or at least go on a date?? I mean, you don't live too far from each other right?? LOL. It would be a match made in Chuck fandom heaven. Also, will we ever get to see a picture of you before Chuck is over forever? You are the only person in the Chuck fan universe who I have never seen a pic of. Have you ever shown up to those Chuckfests or anything or are you just refusing to give up the mystery??
Razorback said... "You are literally sitting there, saving money for the CHUCK series box set? Really? What are you saving a penny a day for FIVE YEARS?!"
I've actually been doing this with Kill Bill 1 & 2, not because I need to save money but because I heard the extras were crappy on the individual DVDs haha. But I'm starting to realize that it's never gonna happen, cause Tarantino is apparently just sitting on his ass while he makes empty promises about a box set!! Grrrr.
Jim, MediaSavant and I have many times gone over this whole "when the ratings declined" bit and fan suppositions don't necessarily correlate well with real data. Plus, fan perception of quality and the general viewer's perception of quality don't always match (or ever?). So we can only go by what was happening at the time, on television, and on NBC in general.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, as much as I enjoy people arguing, if you want to flame each other, take it to Friday's article on CHUCK on GeekFurious where flame wars are welcomed with open arms! ;)
note taken Magnus as a last thing can you please explain Jim is not the same thing when you shoot a show in 8 days with shooting the same show in 6 days ?
ReplyDeleteBecause for some reason he seems to think no matter how money you have for a project or how much time you have to rehears before the scenes the quality stays the same
On my way to GeekFurious :)
Thanks for the offer of a venue, Magnus, but I'm not remotely interested in engaging further with this.
ReplyDeleteJim
We don't know whether it is better to shoot on more days than less. Hell, back in the day, an episode took 3 weeks to shoot. Now they do it in a week. People adapt.
ReplyDeleteI didn't buy the Season 4 DVD for the same reasons i didn't buy 1, 2, 3.
ReplyDeleteI don't own any television series on DVD and if i wanted to watch an episode of an old show i'll catch it in syndication.
Right now every episode of Chuck is fresh in my mind so i don't feel the need to rewatch any of the episodes.
I think the reason Chuck was unable to keep the bigger ratings in season 3 was simply because the casual viewers may have liked the show, but not enough to keep watching.
They tuned in for a few episodes of Season 3 but decided to watch something else.
I think even if Chuck & Sarah had been together from the beginning of Season 3 the same decline would have happened.
Chuck will go down in history as one of those underrated shows that more people should have watched but preferred Dancing with the stars and procedural dramas instead.
As for why the fans of the show have been declining each year there's not one definitive answer for that.
different fans have different reasons.
"I don't own any television series on DVD and if i wanted to watch an episode of an old show i'll catch it in syndication."
ReplyDeleteLOL! Funniest post yet.
"Yeah, I'm really going to have to agree with you. As much as I love the show, I can't say there will ever come a time when I look back and think "I wish I would have spent several hundred dollars more on it". I have one copy of all 4 seasons and that all I need."
ReplyDeleteExactly my point! It's not like it's a competition.
"But in the end, it was one great idea and one girl who didn't just let it remain an idea in her head or on the Internet, that then allowed thousands of fans to suddenly claim credit for having done NOTHING."
ReplyDeleteTrue. It's like in sports; if the team does well, the next day everybody keeps saying how WE won. but if it does poorly they say THE TEAM was having a week period:D
"Exactly my point! It's not like it's a competition."
ReplyDeleteActually, it is a competition. It is part of what keeps the shows you love on the air.
"It is part of what keeps the shows you love on the air. "
ReplyDeleteyes ofcourse, but I'm only talking about the insane mesures some people go to for A TV SHOW..
Don't get me wrong I LOVE Chuck. But I don't feel guilty for not spending hundreds of dollars on the show.
And we are thankful to have you here to tell us about the things you won't do.
ReplyDeleteFirstly let me asy I did buy the Box set as I have seasons 1-3 aswell and I also have all four series stored on my DVR and on my MP4 Player and PC.
ReplyDeleteI think that as with man things there are many reasons for a possible decline in sales of the dvd set there including some people buying the series 1-4 set as they might have scratched there previous ones or leant them out etc, buying blue ray rather that dvd, buying digital copies from amazon, Itunes etc (which are cheaper). The figs you quoted are just Amazon not shops like Target etc so maybe people bought it elseware even getting a european one as it was available in the UK earlier.
The main reason to own the DVDs is to get the extra features and Chuck has alsways been a bit light on those. Yes we have deleted scenes (18 totalling about 11 mins), Blooper reel, Jeffster, and Zac direcing. All of these were available on the net about a month before the box set came out. The blooper reall is great as usual but 11 mins of deleted scenes in a 24 episode season is just crap I would have expected 20+mis I mean they cut it down by about 4 mins from editors cut to broadcast (from a twitter answer from Matt Barber) broadcast so that is very week. Supernatural had two epiosde commentaries which Ive not looked for but would surely be much harder to leek. Why did they not get Yvonne to do one for Phase 3 or even Zac to do Leftovers. Plus Jefftser! most of the fans I know just hated the BM in S4 and it had already been online anyway.
Lastly for want of a better word apathy, I think that for series 1-3 fans had a hope of either giving them as gifts and getting more fans on board, or just thought that if WB made good DVD sales that it could lower the cost to NBC and make it more attractive to NBC. Neither of these make any difference now as this is the final season, and WB will hopefully sell it well in Syndication and make money that way.
The deleted scenes were crap and we know they cut tons of stuff...so i ask why they didn't put them on dvd?
ReplyDeleteBronson Pinchot whole subplot, Sarah/Morgan playing video games etc...it's like they didn't want to show they cut some really cool stuff and only put dvd scenes that were actually weak.
Siemon
"The deleted scenes were crap and we know they cut tons of stuff...so i ask why they didn't put them on dvd?"
ReplyDeleteWho exactly are "they"? I have no idea how this whole DVD process works. If it's the producers, maybe they just ran out of time/money to focus on this sort of thing. If it's someone else, maybe they just didn't care one way or the other and just needed to get a product out the door as fast as possible.
Jim
The producers don't decide content on DVDs. That is all WB (Warner Home Video).
ReplyDeleteBut the thing is, most people don't know what the content is going to be like on the discs before they buy it. Most people aren't the hardcore fans that knows everything.
I say this all the time about different things related to CHUCK, but what you people posting on websites do, know, and feel about the show, is probably not shared by the majority of viewers/buyers.
Magnus,
ReplyDeleteI was wondering if i could ask you a question about season 1.
I don't know where else to ask and you might have the answer since you are an insider.
I don't know if you've been asked the question before or not.
Just ask the question...
ReplyDeleteokay.
ReplyDeleteSince Season 1 only had 13 episodes due to the writers strike what episodes did we miss out on.
Chuck got good enough ratings for an additional back 9.
I was wondering if the episodes plan for season 1 were just used in the early part of season 2 or what.
I figure even if the episodes for early season 2 were holdovers from season 1 we still would have gotten some additional episodes if not for the writers strike.
I was wondering if you knew what additional episodes Chris Fedak had planned for season 1?
The Jill storyline would have been in season 1, if I remember correctly. I actually think Fedak talked about this in some interview somewhere. But I didn't become a fan of the show (or an insider, if you will) until season 2... and didn't really start sucking up the super secret info until right at the end of season 2.
ReplyDeleteIn regards to WB and their decisions re: extra content. Is it possible they are saving some stuff for future editions, say if they did do a "Complete Chuck Series" special edition or something in a year or two? Also, are the extras the same on the Blu Ray and regular dvd editions? Or does Blu Ray have more?
ReplyDeleteI don't know if they are holding onto stuff for the complete edition but I can tell you without a doubt that there is TONS of material out there, including outtakes that will likely never see the light of day.
ReplyDeleteI wonder if the actors have the "right of refusal" in regards to footage. There may be bloopers and outtakes that they just don't want public.
ReplyDeleteI also wonder if residuals play a role in what "deleted scenes" get shown.
There could be all kinds of factors that weigh in on what material makes the DVD's.
Just because we think a specific deleted scene would have been nice to see doesn't mean the person making the decisions thought it was good.
They also tend to include scenes of a decent length. Sometimes, the stuff that's been cut may only be a few seconds long.
Basically, it's hard to criticize if you aren't in the decision maker's shoes and don't know what he or she was actually dealing with.
"I wonder if the actors have the "right of refusal" in regards to footage."
ReplyDeleteI am pretty sure every piece of outtake footage has to be approved by the actor.
Hell, it may even be every single piece of footage that isn't in an episode has to be approved by every actor in the scene.
ReplyDeleteNow you're teasing again with the "greatest Zac and Yvonne outtake ever". Just a hint? A word? It's driving me ca-razy!
ReplyDeleteHint? I don't think I can do that. But man, it would... no, I can't say more.
ReplyDeleteYou know Razorback , Magnus, or Dear DR. . Once this show is over, you should realy release all your dirty secrets and information, you gathered over the years about the show. ;)
ReplyDeleteXD
LOL!
ReplyDeleteThat will never happen. I plan on maintaining the friendships I have made with people on and off the show... and spilling would certainly damage relationships.
and what if someone else posted said information elsewhere?
ReplyDeleteand what if that someone else happened to be your evil twin brother from another reality hidden in the mysterious name of BackRazor?
plausible deniability, Magnus.
ChuckTheWalker
Nope.
ReplyDeleteI'm waiting for the release internationally, LOL...and I'm thinking of waiting for the full series dvd even though I have S1-3. Also in the past I would order the DVD from amazon because I was watching it on DVD. Now I watch it online, so I have time to wait for the DVD to be released outside the US before I buy.
ReplyDeleteI really don't understand how people don't want to have their favorite series on DVD or Blu Ray. I have all my favorite shows on DVD/Blu Ray and do not regret it at all. It gives you the chance to rewatch them, see the extras and have a piece of the show at your home. Saying "I have already seen it, I don't need to own it" is like saying that once you've read a book you don't need to keep it.
ReplyDeleteI don't know what the price was like in the US but it's £35 to buy season 4 in most places. You could pick the others up for about £25 tops - much less now.
ReplyDeleteSeason 4's sales will pick up towards Christmas, which goes without saying really. I'd be surprised if they weren't somewhere close to 3's.