Tuesday, March 30, 2010

Chuck You Tuesday - Episode 27 (ADULTS ONLY)



We Discuss CHUCK Versus The AMERICAN HERO.


ADULT LANGUAGE WARNING! DO NOT let your kids hear this. Also, UNEDITED PODCAST WARNING. All comments are unfiltered and insane.  If you are offended, it is your own darn fault.

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134 comments:

  1. Magnus
    Great podcast.

    I think people have been reading too much into the S/S arc. The writers wrote it for the general viewer, it is what it is and no more.

    The show gave us several clues about S/S. First the time line. Between ep 3.08 when S/S first kissed and ep 3.12 little over two weeks went bye. 7 days between 8 & 9 and 9 & 10, then 11 covered a weekend and 12 covered a short trip to DC. During this time S/S were busy and they did not get a chance to date. Shaw says in 3.12 that it is their first date.

    The WE trip was "covered" as personal to hide from Chuck that it was all about him. Sarah tells us that it was all meetings.

    Then we see no romance between S/S at all in any of the episodes until 12. That is intentional. If we were meant to see them as lovers we would have seen affection. What we see is Shaw being attentive and aware that Sarah loves Chuck. He even asks her. This is someone waiting in the wings for his chance.

    If S/S were in a committed relationship the Stakedate makes no sense. That was a big message that S/S had not got off the ground and that is why Chuck felt free to ask. Sarah almost kissed him to say yes to getting back together.

    Shaw's chance comes when Sarah is destroyed by Chuck killing (she thinks). Up to this point Shaw has been a very necessary person for Sarah to talk to, he is kind and therefore she cares for him. She loves Chuck but that doesn't stop her caring for Shaw as a friend.

    In 12 we see Sarah decide to commit to Shaw for all the reasons CF gave. Chuck is no more and Shaw is the sort of person she should be with, so she goes on a date. She does not love him. Look how hard it is for her to hide her feelings for Chuck when he sits down at the table at the end of that conversation.

    When Shaw goes on a suicide mission she is naturally distressed, this is someone she cares about. Her kisses with Shaw are all sweet, not passionate; another clue.

    The choice she has to make is between the "safe Shaw" or the "new Chuck". I think she chooses New Chuck only to find out to her relief that it is old chuck when Casey tells her about the killing.

    Just my thoughts ...AL

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  2. Like I said weeks ago, if you want it to mean one or the other, it won't be difficult to think it. So, Sarah didn't sleep with Shaw? Fine. It works. Want to believe she did? You can. But I do agree that the dialogue in the episode makes it pretty obvious what the writers were saying: Sarah and Shaw NEVER slept together. They barely dated.

    Hell, without even knowing that Chuck had not killed, she was ready to run away with him. So, the only real criticism one can throw at that whole arc is that it wasn't executed very well. But it is over now. We get to move on. :)

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  3. Oh just one last thing further to my previous post.

    I think the main problem with the S/S arc has been the internet winding up the angst well above what he writers intended. Poor guys they must be pulling out their hair. Yes they played lots of tricks but they also played it straight and left a trail of good clues that most people in their angst frenzy have just ignored.

    And poor CF, if you are asked if the PLI is serious, how can you say no and ruin the sexual tension. You have to say yes..but then he qualified it by describing how Sarah thinks at the beginning of 12. AL

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  4. i think it was a Corvette....

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  5. Poor Chris Fedak? He went into that interview with the intent to rile people up. Though, I do agree that the angst in the episodes is nowhere near the level of angst the crazies projected. But as a great woman once said to me, it doesn't matter what you intended, it only matters how I perceived it. ;)

    Maybe we can move on from this crap now, but I doubt it. Crazies have invested so much time being bothered by it that they can't just pull it back now. They are fully invested in hating the show. They will likely continue doing so.

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  6. I think it was a Corvette too. But when we recorded it, we had just watched it and missed some little obvious things.

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  7. The faces Chuck and Ring Agent Curtis(24!) made right before the flashbang went off had me rolling. Sometimes the strangest things in this show give me the biggest laugh.

    My only complaint is I wish they would've had Sarah look guilty or sad after Chuck saved Shaw and said "He’d would have done the same for me"
    Not a big deal but it would've been a nice callback to the Beard episode.

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  8. Sorry but I think people are doing the writers a disservice. Give me one clue in the show that shows they slept together. It is not one way or the other, it was carefully plotted out by the writers to show a rising tension. It is all viewed from Chuck's perspective. For instance the WE DC trip that had us all in a tizzy. First the writers tease Chuck by saying that it is personal and then they deflate that by explaining it away.

    The tension is designed to rise so that Chuck realises that he only has moments before they S/S get together. The writers take it to the edge Chuck is almost too late because Sarah feels she is committing to Shaw by going on the date.

    They have told the story very well. The S/S arc was needed for Sarah to talk out her feelings. however, like you said, it sucked the life out of the show. AL

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  9. Magnus,

    Great podcast as usual. Shaw's car was a Tesla, zero emissions to go with his outstanding charisma.

    I've not been letting the writing and execution of the Sarah/Shaw relation get under my skin. I view Shaw as a prop more to propel her failed attempt at ignoring what she has evolved to over the last few season, namely a spy who works best when she fights for something she loves and cares about. Well, that worked for me at least without too much projecting past what was given to me on the screen.

    I don't like cheese, but maybe I'm good at ignoring it. So I'm still sticking to the payoff value of the episode and will rank it just below colonel.

    Eirik

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  10. AL, I mostly agree. Well, except for where you said "carefully plotted out by the writers." I would say messily plotted out by the writers in such a way that it didn't work for many of us. See, just because you write an idea and execute it, that doesn't mean it works in the context of the story. I NEVER believed Sarah cared for this guy. And I wanted to believe it.

    Plus, when your execution fails on some levels... on some important levels, it is hard to go along with it. Thankfully, it is over now.

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  11. Yes I agree that most people will be very confused about the S/S arc. It took me a while to see it for what it was and that only happened when I watched the season end to end over the Weekend. Viewing the whole arc in one go gives a different perspective.

    I think it will be interesting to hear what JS and CF have to say at ComicCon on Sunday. I think they will focus on the future and that is probably a good thing. They have never explained or justified an arc before, even the Jill arc. They just let it go.

    We need to get the ratings up and not dwell on the past.

    AL

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  12. "Hell, without even knowing that Chuck had not killed, she was ready to run away with him."

    Yep. I really tried to believe in the Shaw and Sarah thing. But it was so... nothing. And Yvonne and Brandon have zero chemistry. Really difficult.
    In this episode they tell us that is their first real date. So I say to myself: Ok, now I can almost understand the lack of "intimacy" between them, in the past. But the fact that I can't believe, not even for a second, that they care about each other doesn't delete (not even with the new "revelation") the contrived way their "relationship" has been executed.

    I know a lot of people are impatient to see the Chuck and Sarah thing becoming something real. But what I really want to see in episode thirteen, is a great spy story. We know almost nothing about the Ring. Probably we'll find out what there is behind Eve's death, why the CIA (?) gave Sarah the order to kill Eve. But I really would like to know something big about the Ring. I can't wait.

    By the way, Casey is clearly a shipper. Lol.

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  13. If you 're talking about Shaw's car it's a Tesla, basically a Lotus Elise fitted with all electric motors. Which obviously makes it a slightly imperfect car choice to run away to the desert with :)

    J

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  14. I agree the episode overall felt rushed, some of the Comedy was hilarious (Chuck in DC in particular) some kinda too repetitive to be funny (stallion references etc) but what redeemed the episode for me was Adam. That guy is made off pure triple distilled epic.

    Shaw was kinda meh, I mean that semi evil man on a big revenge mission face he pulled right at the end kinda reminded me of B movie bad guys but ... whatever.

    Oh and and the lowered budget was I think evident,especially in SFX and extras in the 3rd quarter of the episode, around the Ring WH.

    Great podcast Magnus, but that's hardly news.


    ~ethan

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  15. Magnus, thanks for the podcast! I really enjoyed it. I really liked this episode, but I agree that it did have some parts that could have been done better. It felt a bit rushed, like they were trying to tell too much story in one eps. Almost like they had 90min of story for a 60min segment. I chalk that one up to the short original season.

    Beyond that, there were great moments of comedy, romance and action. Again, not quite a good mix as some previous episode, but it's still pretty good. I'm REALLY excited for next week! Gonna be good!

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  16. Great episode, don't want to be a downer, but any ratings news?

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  17. BTW, I agree with you in that there are always going to be people are going to complain regardless. I guess some folks just enjoy being miserable...

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  18. I loved your Chuck Opera - more of that please!

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  19. do you think Sarah made her decision before Casey's confess?

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  20. I want the Chuck You Tuesday musical, Magnus :)

    I heard the ratings are better than last week. But there's nothing official yet.

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  21. I read on the NBC board that they got a 4.2/7. I think 4.2 is households, not total viewers. And a 7 share is what we got for the first 3 episodes, which is good.

    The demo rating is what matters, though, right?

    - Stan

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  22. Will Chuck think that Sarah chose Shaw? They won't play with this kind of angst next episode, right? I want to take the Ring down. Or thereabouts :)
    Loved the podcast, Magnus.

    Lily, I think she had already decided to go with Chuck. For Sarah, Casey's confession was the proof she was making the right thing.

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  23. CHUCK did a 2.1 in the demo. It is higher than the last two weeks but against only DWTS it is not good. DWTS is either taking away a ton from the show or it has truly lost a large portion of the fan base (next week's Live+7 of 3.10 will give us a good picture).

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  24. 2.1 in the demo.

    Not so good, but here's hoping we can use that to build into 3.13 (House and HIMYM will once again be in repeats)...

    I guess it'll probably get cancelled, but what the heck is NBC gonna replace it with? ALL they have is the Thursday night comedies; they're gonna go into next year with a slew of new hour long shows (most of which will likely be horrible like Trauma and Mercy)? Doubt it. This has to give Chuck a fighting chance as long as it can at LEAST maintain 2.1 and hopefully pick up a bit (*waits for Magnus to admonish me for suggesting that we even have ANY chance*)

    As for the episode, I have to say this was my favorite of the season (followed closely by Operation Awesome and Tic-Tac). So much awesomeness packed into 42 minutes of TV.

    Can't wait till next Monday.

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  25. Snowy, you must have some super secret fake insiders of your own to be so sure that it has a fighting chance with a 2.1.... because it doesn't. It will have a fighting chance if it gets back up to around 2.4.

    At 2.1, NBC might as well renew HEROES and cancel CHUCK. It would make more money on another season of HEROES. If we want another season of CHUCK, we are going to have to actually work hard to spread the word and get people to tune in LIVE. Giving people false hope will make them relax and think things are fine. That is probably how ratings dropped in the first place. Every site was saying "It is a lock for a 4th" and I think some Nielsen families took it for granted and decided they could DVR it and time shift.

    Though, when we see the next Live+7 we will know if people just abandoned the show and are not coming back.

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  26. I loved your your insights into Sarah´s character. I very much agree. In fact I totally hadn´t understood when your preview of Fake Name stated that Sarah fan girls wouldn´t like it, because I didn´t really get that there were Sarah fans, who didn´t see her like you described.

    I love Sarah and I don´t think she is all that tough. She is more like extremly vulnerable, whenever she is not trying to ignore her emotions.

    I also agree that Shaw as a love interest didn´t really work, because it was just impossible to buy that he was a real alternative for Sarah. If they really wanted to show that, they at least partly failed.

    Enjoyed the podcast a lot. Thanks for it.

    And I vote for you guys doing a podcast entirely in song. ;)

    awelle

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  27. Since I usually try to spin things in a positive way, I think DWTS ratings will decline as celebs start getting eliminated. For instance, if I watched for Erin Andrews, then she gets eliminated, I'm not going to tune in next week.

    It's nice to see a 2, instead of a 1 though. Another .2 increase would be solid for next week, but maybe I'm dreaming on that one

    As for the Heroes argument, doesn't that show cost quite a bit to produce? Here's my bold prediction that completely straddles the fence: both will get 13 episodes. Hereos so it can wind down, and Chuck will get a second second chance.

    Much like Snowy, be gentle

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  28. Next week it will be against new 24 that's going two hours and a repeat of big bang theory at 8 because of college basketball at 9:00pm est.

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  29. Not AT ALL sure of anything. What are your super secret NBC insiders saying about NBC's plans to replace it? If said insiders know enough to be so sure it's getting the axe, they must know something about what NBC will do. New pilots? New L&O edition? More reality shows? It's all crap, likely ratings tanks. Why are consistent 1.9s in the demo good enough for L&O to be a likely renewal?

    And you can't discount the Monday 8PM timeslot either. This has to be THE toughest slot of the week. ABC (Bachelor/DWTS) and House are both absolute powerhouses Mondays at 8, and CBS's comedies are no slouch. But what Chuck would do in any other time slot would probably just be speculation I guess... If it does beat the odds and return for a 4th season it would be interesting to see it in a different timeslot.

    Well either way I am poised to enjoy however many episodes we have left (I guess probably only 7, but hopefully more...).

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  30. Dungeon Master Level 4March 30, 2010 at 12:09 PM

    I'm pretty sure the car was a Tesla Roadster, which is sorta funny because it's an electric car with a range of about 200-250 miles. I don't really know where Shaw thinks he's going driving out into the middle of the desert with an electric car, but it helps me think of him as even more of an idiot so I'm good.

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  31. Anonymous, if that even is your name, HEROES is owned by NBCU so it makes money on it in every way possible. It does not own CHUCK so it only makes ad revenue collected during LIVE+3 (or whatever you call it) viewings. While HEROES does cost more than CHUCK, it does not cost that much more to make a major difference if their ratings are the same.

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  32. I don't buy the evil Shaw. Who knows, maybe he will take a bullet for Sarah. I would like to see the crazy shippers' reaction after that.
    Lol.

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  33. I really enjoyed last night's episode. It and Tic Tac are my favorites so far this season. I also thought Shaw's role was compelling, and well-played by Routh. I actually sort of felt for the character and that's saying something since I've found him underwhelming most of the season.

    I also liked how they didn't end the episode with Chuck thinking Sarah chose Shaw (at least that's my take). I'm so tired of misunderstandings, misconceptions, near-misses, and stalled dialog. I hope 3.13 doesn't begin with Chuck thinking he has to win Sarah back again. I don't think I can take any more of that beaten-down theme (but I will).

    Finally, whoever is doing wardrobe for the show needs a shout-out. Two weeks in a row of Sarah in mini-skirts/mini-dresses is awesome.

    Looking forward to listening to the podcast.

    Bad Leg

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  34. Snowy, I have no idea what they are replacing it with and I don't care. I take my sources at their word. CHUCK is not looking good. It needs to improve ratings. And if you say anything as ridiculously dumb as I DISCOUNT the timeslot, then please just quit coming to this site. I am not making ANY decisions about whether to renew or cancel. I am just TELLING YOU what my sources say. How am I discounting something when I am the one who created most of the arguments many of you now make for why it should return. Except I made them LAST YEAR when it applied (you can probably still find my original arguments from last year around this time still on the NBC and ChuckTV forums).

    Stop trying to convince people that the show should come back with its crappy ratings. Get your arses out there and help it come back.

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  35. Magnus, I have to say, I miss the old podcasts, when you all used to be more precise and richer in your comments. Don't get me wrong, I love hearing your podcasts but I miss those times when you guys made me always feel like listening to you was helping me to understand the show better. Now I just feel like it was a poor podcast, sorry. After listening I'm just like "well, here there was 1 of my hours and it didn't add or helped me in anything...".
    I also think that you all seem too tired and bored, perhaps you shouldn't record the podcast so late. Maybe the day after, when you all had time to think a little bit more about the ep(and so to make better comments too), I don't know. I hope you don't get me wrong with this, I'm not even trying to change anything, I'm just a listener.

    P.S.: but I do like your singing! :)

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  36. Ines, you have convinced me... to make you dislike it even more next time. :)

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  37. I was hoping you to say that.. :)

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  38. Magnus, I know it doesn't seem like it, but i appreciate the constant bitch-slaps of reality on the Heroes front and other renewal talk.

    I've gotten 3 people into the show in the last month, and they all vary in their tastes. They all said the same thing: "why don't more people watch this?" Wish I had a good answer other than bitching about single-serving shows and reality tv.

    Oh well, I guess just enjoy the last seven, and hope either ratings rise, or someone starts blowing NBC execs....or both

    - Stan

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  39. Stan, the thing that annoys me the most about this whole "save Chuck" thing is that people keep trying to make arguments for why the show should not be canceled. It is like sitting around and talking about why your team SHOULD be in first, even though it is in last. It won't win them any games.

    We need people to watch... live. We need fans to stop thinking things will be fine. We need them to think they can save it (they probably can) but only if they work hard.

    The problem is that fans don't want to hear that. They want a solution that requires them to do the LEAST AMOUNT OF WORK. That won't work. We need to put forth MAXIMUM EFFORT... every week.

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  40. Snowy, you are a whiny baby and banned for life.

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  41. Mind you, lifetime bans can be lifted with a $5,000 donation to the American Heart Association.

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  42. Dude, I was really fishing for a virtual pat on the back for the 3 extra viewers. You broke my heart, Magnus, you broke my heart.

    When can we expect the next set of mindf*ck teasers? Or are you going to make me re-visit the page every 15-20 minutes for the next couple days?

    - Stan

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  43. "It is like sitting around and talking about why your team SHOULD be in first, even though it is in last."

    I don't think this is the same thing. Some years a sports team can still make the playoffs with a bad record (like 8-8 in the NFL). I see Chuck as that 9-7 or 8-8 team. Discussing whether the team can slip into the playoffs (renewal) is different from pontificating over how that 8-8 team "could" or "should" have been 12-4.

    But in any case, I've been trying all season each week to get new people watching (and existing people watching live), and will continue to do so!

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  44. Stan, you need me to pat you on the back for helping to save the show you love? OK. Nice job.

    yTedK, you are also banned but for an entirely different reason. Pointless counter analogy. It is in the rules. No nerdy counter analogies!

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  45. Oh and the rest of the teasers will go up when my podcast gets into the top 10 on Podcast Alley!

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  46. I wish people would stop talking about S/S. It never mattered, it will never matter, and it is pissin' me off! The only thing this arc did was subtract precious minutes from what TPTB should have focused on in this show.

    1) Developing Chuck
    2) Developing the ring
    3) Exploring the intersect
    4) Working on reconnecting C/S

    Notice how I put the C/S relationship in last place. Yeah, that's where it should be, at the bottom.

    Oh and I so agree with Magnus about BR having to emote more if we are suppose to buy into this whole S/S romance. I really, really, really wanted to believe so I could get into this whole supposed shocking reveal, but in the end, I couldn't. In BR's defense though, I wasn't buying it on Yvonne's end either. Probably the worst acting with another character she's had since the show started. I'll give her a pass, she deserves it after all the great scenes she's had. I really thought the whole thing was a sham from one of them based on what I was seeing and when it was suppose to be real I really didn't know what to think. I was kinda like 'So.... I was suppose to think this whole attraction thing to each other was real, awkward maybe, but real all along?' Anyway, do all the PLI's you want, it's your show (CF & JS), but if it's suppose to be something genuine I wanna believe it. Please sell it to me next time.

    Oh and how many people do you know when they are passed out can hold there arms out on either side of the persons body carrying them? Chhhheeeeessssseeeee!!!!!

    Crash

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  47. Snowy, you are still banned. Posting about what a bully and ass I am is not going to get that lifted. However, a huge donation to the AHA will help. Stop being a baby and do it already.

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  48. Crash, the episode was at times amazing and at times super cheesy. Though, I think most people don't even see the cheese. Some of us are just way too sophisticated and cool for our own good. :)

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  49. Don't care; don't want the ban lifted. Just realize that you are just a big fish in a small pond on this blog, and treat others with the same respect with which you'd expect to be treated.

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  50. TOO BAD! I LIFTED IT! HAHAHAHAHA! I RULE! YOU SUCK!

    I win again. This is awesome.

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  51. Shaw screaming "NOOOO (...Noooo...)" was so cheesy to me, so lion king!

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  52. Haha, I'll admit I laughed out loud at that one. Well played.

    trollface.jpg

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  53. Are you trying to post a jpg in here?

    BAN UNLIFTED!

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  54. Hi Magnus,

    I like your blog. It is fun and much more interesting then the other chuck forums. I really enjoyed last night's episode. I liked all aspects of the show which is a first for me this season. It even had a nice Chuck /Ellie moment which I felt has been seriously lacking. Hopefully this episode will generate good buzz and fans will come back to check out the show again.

    -NB

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  55. NB, Ellie was awesome last night. The worst thing about budget cuts is that we don't get as much of her... and the rest of the cast, in every episode. I will miss her when she is killed off.

    Oops.

    (I am kidding)

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  56. "I will miss her when she is killed off.

    Oops.

    (I am kidding)"

    Ok, I'm ok. I passed out when I read this. But now I'm fine. I love her. She really needs more screen times. She deserves it.
    So now Shaw has Sarah. But I don't think he wants to kill her. If he wants a revenge, I think he'll try to kill Chuck. He'll try to kill the man Sarah loves. Draw.

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  57. Sorry, I blame God. She made me evil.

    As for what Shaw will do... I guess we will see. Maybe my teasers will shed some light. Maybe not.

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  58. Ellie and Chuck's conversation was the best part of this episode. Haven't gotten a chance to listen to the podcast yet, I'll post more comments once I do.

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  59. When Shaw wakes up at the hospital it's like he has been activated. He is a cyborg, that's the big secret. Lol :)

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  60. Shaw needs to get to the root of his problem. He knows how bad Sarah felt about her red test and she didn't even know it was Eve at the time. Shaw needs to figure out what the deal is.

    1) Was Eve really a ring agent and fooled Shaw. Hence, the hit.
    2) Is or was there a ring agent running the CIA at one point? Graham maybe?
    3) Is Eve still alive and they are just trying to use Shaw to put down TB for good?

    I do agree though if the ring is responsible and Shaw wants revenge then he needs Chuck to beat them. If he kills Chuck then Shaw has no shot on his own. It'd be nice to see a no win scenerio for Shaw after putting Chuck in one during 3.11. However, if he's just so hell bent on hurting Sarah then killing Chuck is the ultimate payback. She'd have to live with the guilt for the rest of her life. Kinda like how he put Eve in a situation that ended her life.

    Crash

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  61. Thank you for adding the just kidding. That's all the NBC boards need.

    "Dude!, Magnus just said Ellie dies this season!!! True story."


    Actually just about everyone loved the episode, which is hilarious because going in most were saying...

    "I don't care what they do, Sarah is destroyed for me and this whole C/S relationship has been dragged through the mud, I just want the arc to be over."


    Now everyone is praising the writers for how they fixed it. How C/S are back, and how the show is great again.

    Jesus this fanbase is ridiculously Bi-Polar. Flip flopping as bad as John Kerry during his presidential campaign.

    Anyways, I liked the podcast (little lackluster this time) and this episode I thought was pretty good. Just packed on the cheesiness at times but its better than watching forced S/S romance.

    -DD

    -DD

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  62. Thanks again for another great podcast! Loved the Type O Negative song snippet/rendition too. A long time ago, in a galaxy far far away, I was a metal head with a show on my college radio station. But that's another story...

    As to Chuck...what a freaking relief to not end the episode on NO EMOTIONAL DOWNER. I've been taking the ride, but it was becoming painful and I sorely needed some sort of payoff and I felt it with this episode. I loved everything Zach brought to the character this week and even if some thought it might've been cheesy, him telling Sarah Walker that he loved her like a zillion times, just golden! My favorite part.

    Yeah, there were some cheesy parts, but after the continuing depressing and confusion of things in prior episodes, I could gladly overlook them and just smile giddily to see some very classic moments from the whole cast. Very quotable episode.

    It's been a long ride and even though I've puzzled through some of the writer's decisions, I've always had faith in the pay off and I think it's here.

    I think the more positive nature of this episode, even though Chuck has to go save Sarah, is going to bring in bigger ratings numbers. My whole office has been raving on the episode this morning, so hopefully the good word of mouth helps.

    Excited to read teasers for next week!

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  63. When can we expect another 'family friendly' podcast?

    Meghan

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  64. Wow, even the NBC forums liked this episode? I'm surprised.

    I really thought this episode had some issues storywise (I don't like the twist about Mrs. Shaw, just seems really contrived and Shaw's wife had only even been mentioned once before), but it made up for it with the comedy. You had the stuff with Chuck and the gun at the beginning, the Team Morgan shenanigans in the first half, and then some of the funniest Jeff/Lester scenes ever in the second half.

    Great Ellie episode too! I've been feeling like they needed to give her more to do this season(for awhile the only thing she did was worry about Chuck and Awesome hiding stuff from her). Her speech to Chuck and her chastising Team Morgan for getting in jail were both great.

    So while it has more flaws than most Chuck episodes, I loved it anyway.

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  65. The NBC boards were absurd yesterday/today. They are 100% convinced that the angst is the sole cause of any loss in viewership. And there's a guy on there trying to argue that Sarah's character is ruined to the point that none of us should even want a season 4. Among other ridiculousness. That's why I prefer to hang out here (even if I do get banned for football analogies XD )

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  66. I thought this episode was great and I agree with the podcast on the S/S front. I think they overcompensated this episode to show that Sarah actually had feelings for Shaw since the past few episodes we got pretty much zero indication. The writers wanted to make the end choice of Sarah more dramatic and less predictable I guess. That's really my only complaint. YS just couldn't pull off acting like she had any sort of feelings for Shaw, it was pretty funny in the dinner scene where she was trying to do so.

    I thought the episode had everything that makes the show great in full force. Ellie and Chuck talk was the top of the episode I got to say, SL was phenomenal in that scene. I had shivers down my spine when her words just burst out.

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  67. Christine, I am way more interested in your metal show history than any more Chuck and Sarah discussions. Tell me more!

    You all should seek out Sepinwall's blog on this episode. He nailed what has been wrong with this season... it was almost like he listened to my podcast. :)

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  68. "He'll try to kill the man Sarah loves. Draw."

    So Sarah has to kill Shaw to save Chuck. She'll kill the entire family :)

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  69. My speculation. Shaw is a nutcase. He will drive Sarah to Las Vegas and they'll get married. Chuck arrives but they have already a couple of babies. Chuck could save Sarah only with Doc Brown's help and his time machine. But the time machine is just the DeMorgan. And it won't work.

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  70. First time to this blog and to this podcast and I gotta say, well done! Very entertaining and I agree with basically everything you said. I agree on the Sarah/Shaw illegitimacy. I'm ready for Shaw to be gone so we can move on.

    One thing I felt you guys left out in talking about this episode is how great Casey was. For some reason I just keep loving Casey better and better this season. He's showing a little more heart but still being the badass he is. And watching him help Chuck get Sarah (for his own reasons) tickled me so much last night. He so rarely gives his own opinions about which team member Sarah is crushing on at the moment. I thought Casey was absolutely brilliant in this ep.

    Concerning Chuck and Sarah- I think the reason this show is failing is the way they've executed their relationship from the beginning. The way they went about it was all wrong and really means a hurried ending. From season one, very quickly into the show, it becomes very very clear that Chuck has intense feelings for Sarah. And though Sarah apparently loves Bryce, it quickly becomes clear that she finds Chuck endearing too. Enter season two where they both know they love each other and are only kept apart because of unremarkable obstacles lazily thrown in their way by the writers. Season three is more of the same. So basically it just becomes a tiresome game where we pretend to be drawn in by 'will-they-or-won't-they' but really we know that there is nothing preventing them from being together.
    Other more successful shows are more subtle and go slower. First the partnership in question interacts and gets to know one another, bantering and flirting a little to the point where shippers begin to develop, but never to the point where the audience knows the pair is already in love. The relationship evolves over seasons, and the L word is NOT dropped for a long, long time. Then our agony, and our draw, comes from watching them, hoping for even a morsel of hope that the relationship is progressing. We know the characters care for each other, but we don't know one hundred percent because the writing keeps us guessing.
    Instead, we have Chuck and Sarah, who we knew almost immediately loved one another and thus ends the suspense and hook for the audience.
    Honestly, by this point, I am so sick of the stupid repetitive way of writing I'm about to say something quite reckless. I am a shipper (not a crazy shipper) who has reached the point where she would rather these idiot keep-away games be over and see them abandon the spy world and run off together and end the show, rather than suffer through more seasons of unconvincing obstacles keeping them apart.

    That being said, I do NOT want this show to end. I think they could get Chuck and Sarah together and keep working on the crazy spy stuff because I'm really loving this new Argent Bartowski business. They could stop focusing so much on Chuck and Sarah and we could sit back and thoroughly enjoy without being annoyed by the distracting excuses. And maybe we'd get more Casey time too that way.

    Despite the cheesiness and the horrible Sarah/Shaw stuff, I adored this episode and can't wait for next week. Keep up the great work on this podcast! I'll definitely be tuning in to see what you thought of next week's ep.

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  71. Jenny, I am pretty sure you are a crazy shipper. :) And they are never going to stop playing up the Chuck and Sarah relationship. It will exist forever, in some form. If it ends with season 3, it will end. Nothing can be done about the story now. They are done shooting.

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  72. Magnus,

    Great podcast. Now that we've seen99% of Shaw's arc, I'm just curious, if it were up to you how would you have truncated or changed his time on the show. What did the writers do that was good, what should they have changed? Or is the character Shaw just a complete debacle, in your opinion? I happen to like Brandon Routh, thought his cameo in Zack and Miri was great and really think he got a bum rap from some for his work on Chuck. Not that he's the world's greatest actor, but he's better than some of the criticism he's received, at least in my view.

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  73. Mike, I would have put him in 3.04 and 3.05. Then had him go away and return for 3.11-3.13. Do away with the whole ridiculous romance and just make it about Chuck and Sarah deciding to be together but her worrying about him becoming a killer.

    The problem, I think, is that the original plot called for a different character to be the Chuck and Sarah obstacle and it made more sense... and was an established chemistry.

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  74. Magnus, can you elaborate on that last part, if possible. I'd assume you mean Bryce, but since I just started watching the show in December, I'm not privy to anything that did or didn't happen with contracts and bringing actors in/back.

    Also, kinda random to the conversation, but I gotta say I love when Gen. Beckman is around giving orders instead of Shaw. She has such a unique chemistry with Chuck. Hope we see more of her on the back 6

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  75. When you talk about the original plot are you talking about this season or when the show first started? I know they canned some other PLI who was suppose to live next door to Chuck during season 1.

    Crash

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  76. "The problem, I think, is that the original plot called for a different character to be the Chuck and Sarah obstacle and it made more sense... and was an established chemistry."

    Oh, are you talking about either Bryce or Cole in Shaw´s place? I would have loved that. Especially would have loved to have Bryce as part of the team. I loved that character. I also enjoyed both of these characters interaction with Chuck a lot. And they both had a great rapport with Casey.

    I guess it´s water down the bridge, but it would have had a lot of potential.

    awelle

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  77. This is something a few of us very cool people know about. It is not something talked about anywhere (other than with people who know me and I trust... or once trusted).

    Anyway, Bryce didn't die in the original outline of season 3.

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  78. Alt. reality crazy shipper rant: "OMG! They have totally ruined Sarah this season, why would she ever go with Bryce? What does he have to offer? It's obvious that she is a flip-flopper and is light-switching her emotions this year. I mean, Bryce has killed people. Even if she chooses Chuck, it won't have the same meaning. I'm done with this show....again"

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  79. Sam04:
    At the end of the episode were Chuck and Sarah planning to run away for good or just go on a vacation for a few days?

    Starting from his ephiphany in the last five minutes of 2.22 we have been led to believet that Chuck wanted to be a spy because he thought that he could make a positive difference in the world. Then in the last episode Chuck tells Casey that he doesn't want to be a spy if Sarah isn't with him. That seems like a pretty big switch with no explanation offered. The whole year I thought that Chuck's dream would be to be a real spy with Sarah by his side. It turns out that his real dream is to run off with Sarah and spend the rest of his life on one big vacation while staying under the radar of the US governement.

    I think that this makes Chuck look pretty weak but also very inconsistent. Did I miss something?

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  80. "Anyway, Bryce didn't die in the original outline of season 3."

    Pff, now you have me contemplating how much more awesome season 3 could have been. I really adored Bryce´s character.

    But I guess it´s kind of futile to lament that he wasn´t used as the ring expert and a much more believable rival for Sarah´s love. Still too bad.

    And I agree that the dynamic between Chuck and Beckman is great. I love their interaction. Glad they didn´t have her killed off as well.

    awelle

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  81. See that's why I like the outtakes on the edited podcasts. You sneak things like this in.

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  82. I agree with Magnus and his "insiders" that at the current ratings level, I can't see it being renewed. IMO, the next episode may be the real test. We need to get the buzz going.

    Some tidbits about this week's ratings:

    --The 10% increase we saw in Adults 18-49 was not matched by an increase in household ratings. When demos go up without a household increase, it means more people watched per household. That's kinda nice to hear.
    --The increase was driven by a 20% increase in Women 18-49. Men only went up slightly from last week. (Chuck's male rating is higher than its female rating)
    --The increase came in the "same day" timeshifting rating, not in the pure live rating. Pure live viewing was the same as last week.

    Q for Magnus: What's your feeling on how much NBC will promote the show this coming week?

    Diane, the ratings geek

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  83. Diane, thank you for the info. It is a shame that there was no change in pure live. At least if there was, then NBC could use that.

    As for NBC promoting the coming episode... I think we will see more than we have been seeing. I don't know how much, though.

    When can we expect the Live+7 for 3.10? Also, I have seen those C3 ratings before but I don't really see them released publicly, anywhere. Are those only sent to the networks?

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  84. They should promote next episode as a season finale. But NBC sleeps.

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  85. Just need 40 more votes on my podcast before I start posting the teasers. :)

    http://fwd4.me/ITQ

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  86. Christine, thanks for the story. Not posted but I am responding... coolness. :)

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  87. Your Welcome...

    I just clicked your profile for the first time, yeah, duh....MJK is a God!!

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  88. Magnus this isn't Chuck related so if you don't push this comment through its cool, I was just wondering how your liking The Pacific so far? If your even watching.


    -DD

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  89. What made them change their mind about byrce was it bomer going to do his own show?

    Otter

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  90. -DD, yeah. I am digging it. But I think they made a mistake not showing more of the men before putting them in the fighting. BoB was better in that sense. I knew who they all were before they ever went into combat.

    Otter, I believe so.

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  91. Yeah I agree with that assessment. You really knew just about everyone with BoB.
    I've been enjoying it anyways.


    -DD

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  92. Why is Casey always great? Even if he is in the episode two minutes, those two minutes are great. I love him.

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  93. As far as the ratings talk goes, NBC has been clear its renewal also depends on what comes out of development. This idea that they have nothing to replace it with might not be correct. They are being pitched lots of new shows and will put some into production.

    I will never be a fan of the Shaw arc. It didn't work for me on any level. Which isn't to say I don't appreciate the try, but when we were half way through last night's episode and Sarah is kissing Shaw like all of a sudden a lightbulb had gone off and she wanted Shaw badly and then was crying over him sacrficing himself, basically crying to Chuck over her new boyfriend who she was off to "start a new life" with in DC, I knew they weren't going to wrap this up with anymore poilsh than they had used all season with this arc.Sarah came off as weak and indecisive and pretty shrewish toward Chuck. It felt like Sarah bent to the story instead of the story being driven by who Sarah has been for 2 seasons. Lots of justifying of the inconsistencies with talk of Sarah is so tormented, blah, blah, blah, but she spent all season making 180 degree turns to force the story they wanted. I wanted that Colonel feeling last night and didn't get it. Sarah didn't have Chuck's back and alot of the romance of it was lost for me as a result. I kind of wanted Chuck to tell her to take a hike. Not what a viewer should be feeling. HOWEVER, I love Chuck, I love the show that was underneath all that last night and I'm hoping to hell it's renewed.

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  94. Magnus thank you for the difference between a crazy shipper and a shipper. I guess by definition am a shipper like casey, I wanted C/S to get together and be a couple but because they were not I still love the show, I have been promoting it and want it to renewed. I was hoping sarah would have kissed chuck like she did in the seduction but both chuck and shaw got the fish face kiss. So the kisses also gives credence that S/S was a farce. By the way the downer talk about the cancellation does not inspire the creative thinking needed to get the show renewed. People hear that then give up, their not a Marine or a Bartowski. Ellie and Casey were hot.

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  95. Beckman said that they managed to recover the security tape from Sarah's Red Test from the Ring bunker.

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  96. I want more, I want more. You guys are so hilarious, Your awesomeness about Chuck make me love more then ever the show...

    Magnus, great podcast, love your comments about Sarah, I've never saw her that way but does make a lot of sense. Also, beside both scenes with Ellie, ma favorite part was Mr. Bartowski goes to Washington. The awkwardness of Chuck in that intimidating building, trying to remember G. Beckman's Floor and describing her to that dude. And when he finally find her office, the way he handled his gun, trying to make conversations with the others. Super!

    Even with all the cheesy stuff, I've immensely enjoyed the episode, the rest of the season and all the previous seasons in fact. Chuck needed to grown, Chuck needed a purpose in his life and he found it, well, the purpose find him instead and he embraced it, by his own way, the Chuck's way.

    PS: Did anyone noticed that Shaw called Chuck "Special Agent Bartowski" in the Castle?

    MHR19

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  97. If anyone was unsure what Sarah's choice was before Casey told her about Chuck not killing the mole...just look at the nightstand behind her while she packs. A good old Chuck and Sarah photo.

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  98. @Sam04 - I don't think Chuck is being inconsistent at all. If you look closely back at S1 and S2, you can see hints that Chuck enjoys being a spy. It gives him purpose and direction, and allows him access to Sarah. That is what he was alluding to in the speech at the restaurant. However, I think Chuck realized, particularly in the last few eps, that being with Sarah is more important than being a spy, and that if push came to shove, he'd rather be with Sarah. Now, if he can have his cake and eat it to, he'd gladly take that as well.

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  99. There's so much hate for Sarah around other places...why? Better question, why do I venture into those other places?

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  100. @Kat - because people are not used to critically thinking. ANY analysis will show that while Sarah has been acting puny for most of S3, it's totally within character...just a character they refuse to accept. It's like a parent not wanting to accept that their sweet child has grown up and is a different person now.

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  101. Paul, and that was my point about the SWFG and the Ho-Cast (or whatever it is called). They keep pining for a character that doesn't exist. The same for so many crazy shippers (but for different reasons). If you expect a person to be someone they are not, then it is not their fault for failing your expectations. IT IS YOUR FAULT for having them.

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  102. Good points Paul & Magnus regarding Sarah. I still love her and I certainly don't always expect her to react the way I want her to. Also while I don't always agree with her actions this season, I feel like I've been told/shown enough of who Sarah is to undestand where she's coming from.

    Anways for me Yvonne continues to be amazing and Sarah continues to be one of my fav female lead character on a tv show. Can't wait to see the rest of the season and great podcast Magnus.

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  103. Magnus, I will be the first to admit that I follow several different fansites and forums for Chuck. I do that to get a wide variety of opinions and analysis of the show. Some are better than others at doing so. But I always try to form my own opinion about what's going on based on what has been presented (both on the screen and through critical thinking/analysis). Because the show provides that kinds of texture and depth that provides for analsis is why it's special.

    What annoys me about some of those sites is that they are oftentimes very superficial about what they like or dislike. I've listened to the SWFG podcasts, and while they do provide good insight sometimes, sometimes they act like chatty adolescent girls (which for all I know they ARE) when talking about the show. But as I often say, they are welcome to their opinons, Just don't be surprised if other people don't agree.

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  104. Paul, I am cool with whatever the Ho's do and if they want to have a very superficial discussion about the characters... great. And I know a couple of them are actually very bright and do agree with me. But I also know that until I started pushing my Sarah character analysis, the accepted "fact" was that Sarah was a "strong female super spy" who was at times "emotionless."

    So, the only time we see true shifts in the fan base character analysis is when someone, like me for instance, with a strong personality comes along and pushes for it. I know that people often refer to me as a bully because they feel like I suppress counter ideas. Truth is that I only suppress STUPIDITY. If you disagree with me, then I am cool. I am not a bully, I AM AN ELITIST.

    Get it right people. ;)

    Oops... I digressed a bit.

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  105. "When can we expect the Live+7 for 3.10?"

    3.9 just came out this past Monday. 3.10 should be available to Nielsen subscribers next Monday.

    I won't be able to get them until Tuesday, though. Flying back to NY from Wondercon on Monday.

    I don't have any C3's for the show, but for most shows, the C3 is somewhere between the Live and Live + SD. Gotta hope it's closer to the latter for Chuck.

    Diane

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  106. The problem with the SWFG's and Chuck's Stable of Ho's is that they are fans of Sarah because she is a strong woman. This is probably more true with the SWFG's, I don't really know the other group. If you couldn't see that Sarah was an emotional mess after the Bryce betrayal in season 1 then you were blind. It made her start to question her career and the stability it provided her, even more so when Graham died. Then Chuck comes around and rips down all her walls and makes her start to deal with all her past crap that she tried to bury. Delorean, Cougars, etc. The girl is a wreck, her training isn't keeping her emotions at bay anymore and she started to slowly drown in her grief.

    I'm still not really sure why she confided in Shaw rather than Chuck. Even after the intersect was uploaded she had enough time before he was shipped off to take an hour and explain why they should run and where she was emotionally. It actually would have been a really cool way for the season to start. Chuck on the run with Sarah, Casey hunting them down, seperating them for an episode and then getting reunited when Beckman needed a functional Chuck in the field to fight the ring. Then you can obviously train Chuck further and watch all the complex situations unfold around them while they try to be spies and a couple. If they couldn't make it work then you have more justification for breaking them up later in the season. Prague just seemed too easy, too forced and convenient for anyone to really buy it. Unfortunately, the reset along with both PLI's for Chuck and Sarah were just really lazy. Bad planning on CF and JS after an incredible ending to season 2. However, I'll continue to watch and support my show. I love Chuck and would be really sad to watch it go. Hopefully even the crazy shippers will come to realize this in the next few weeks.

    Crash

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  107. Crash, exactly. It would be like me creating a group called CAFD (Captain Awesome Fan Dudes) where we support his love for the dangers of the spy world. And then we create a podcast where we pat ourselves on the back for nailing his character's obvious love for the dangers of the spy world:

    Me: I loved how he tackled Shaw! He was so lucky that Awesome didn't pull out a gun and shoot him! Because Awesome is super dangerous and loves to kill!

    Lou: I KNOW! He is so super awesome as a murderous super spy!

    Michael: OMG! When Morgan was telling him he was in a bubble, I thought Devon was going to whip out a wire and strangle him to death BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT CAPTAIN AWESOME DOES ALL THE TIME!

    Ridiculous, right? ;)

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  108. @Paul. Critical analysis could be utilized to provide a reasonable framework for the Sarah character regardless of how she acted within a season. Simply plug in a different set of assumptions about her personality and viola she makes sense. If instead of acting puny, needy and emotionally remote from Chuck, Sarah had gone into caustic, butt kicking hyper drive this season ANY analysis would have shown that this too was completely in character. After all, we've seen Sarah attempt to deal with her emotional vulnerability and pain through anger, physically verbally lashing out throughout the series. Indeed, we see her do just that in 3.01 and 3.02 although the writers largely bring this to a stop with the fountain scene in 3.02. They could have omitted the scene and allowed Sarah to take out her emotional distress on Ring Agents during missions and Chuck during training, or they could have just forgotten about scene altogether much as they did Sarah's promise to help clean up the mess.

    The problem most fans have with the Sarah character isn't that she's behaving out of character. That's really just their way of saying that they don't like the Sarah character as she's been written and they didn't want to see 2 episodes of mad Sarah and 9 episodes of puny Sarah. More aware critics speak of ruining the Sarah character or simply express consternation with the character remaining puny for so long. There's no obligation that fans like the character that writers have created. Many individuals don't or didn't like Morgan or Jeffster. Many fans don't like puny Sarah.

    Now the interesting thing is that as much as puny Sarah exists, kick arse Sarah also exists. This is still a woman who in response to emotional distress knocks the stuffing out of a punching bag on multiple occasions. This is still the woman who took pleasure in physically dominating her high school tormentors. This is still the woman who drove a pencil through a glass picture frame and into the image of Chuck in response to his digging into her past. This is still the woman who beat a passive Chuck with a stick in response to Beckman's refusal to transfer her. This is still the woman who pulled Chuck in for a kiss as the timer on a presumed bomb ticked off its last few seconds. Not every aspect of the Sarah Walker spy persona was a lie and it personally irritates me that we've seen precious little fire since 3.02.

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  109. LoL...that sounds vaguely like those "Brawndo" commercials they used to promote the movie Idiocracy...:oP

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  110. weaselone, she is not still that woman. Her "Sam" realization in 3.08 has forever changed who she is and who she will become. She may still have the Sarah Walker skill-set and experience, but she is now a woman who would walk away from Sarah Walker in a second if given an excuse.

    That is why I feel she didn't need Casey to tell her that Chuck didn't kill his mark. Though, in that moment she knew for sure that her heart had not been betrayed. She had fallen for the right guy. But she had already made the choice to be with him.

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  111. Weaselone said - "Now the interesting thing is that as much as puny Sarah exists, kick arse Sarah also exists. This is still a woman who in response to emotional distress knocks the stuffing out of a punching bag on multiple occasions. This is still the woman who took pleasure in physically dominating her high school tormentors. This is still the woman who drove a pencil through a glass picture frame and into the image of Chuck in response to his digging into her past. This is still the woman who beat a passive Chuck with a stick in response to Beckman's refusal to transfer her. This is still the woman who pulled Chuck in for a kiss as the timer on a presumed bomb ticked off its last few seconds. Not every aspect of the Sarah Walker spy persona was a lie and it personally irritates me that we've seen precious little fire since 3.02."

    You are absolutely correct in that both sides of Sarah exist at the same time (again why the dichotomy of SW makes her such a good character). But your statement tells me you understand the dichotomy, just don't happen to like that she's acting one way more than another. That's perfectly fine. My point was that there are a lot of fans who refuse to believe that there is a dichotomy in the first place.

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  112. Magnus, I agree with you regarding Casey's confession at the end of the episode. I would have preferred he kept his mouth shut and forced Sarah to give Chuck his one secret. But let's be honest, the writers are going to have Chuck kill someone either in the next episode, this season, or the perhaps never to be 4th season and they want to squeeze ever last drop of drama out of it. Of course Chuck making the choice to save Sarah's life at the expense of violating his own morale code and losing Sarah forever would be a powerful scene.

    I wasn't talking about Sarah's skill set and experience. Sarah doesn't kiss Chuck in Hard Salami, vent her frustration with her father on a punching bag or take pleasure in dominating Heather Chandler because she was a spy. I suspect that those instances reflect as much on the core Sarah Walker as the vulnerability we've seen this season.

    Of course, I could be wrong and we'll get puny Sarah for the rest of the series, or I could be correct in which case you'll probably claim that there was another transformational moment that caused Sarah to reemerge as a butt kicking super spy as opposed to simply accepting that butt kicking Sarah and puny Sarah are both preexisting facets of Sarah's personality. In the end it doesn't matter. Sarah's a fictional character and her internal struggle is hidden so both opinions are ultimately incapable of being dismissed without a decree from on high.

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  113. I love this show and while there have been times I have been left scratching my head wondering why the heck writers would do certain things, I have to remember that overall it's still a show. Not all shows have been perfect and there will never be a perfectly scripted show. Someone, somewhere will always complain about something they didn't like.

    Do I like the Shaw character? No, I think the show would have done fine without him and he has been getting tiring, but I give the writers credit for bringing in a character they knew a lot of people were going to dislike. Not many would have done this knowing how the rabid shippers would react.

    Do I like the way some of the episodes feel rushed? Negative on that one as well. It just doesn't have the same flow as in the past 2 seasons but I guess when you are given more than 13 episode from the beginning, the creative team has more time to structure the season. I'm looking forward to seeing what they did in the second half of the season.

    Here is my problem with NBC. They are looking at the ratings and seeing that the show is not a strong one in terms of competing with other networks. I'm sorry but to compete against those other shows is asking a lot from Chuck. Heroes couldn't do it (after a few seasons), Trauma couldn't do it. There you have a new show and an old show going up against heavy weights and never could pull it off. How can you compete with shows when people aren't watching the network. Most of the people I know have no idea what Chuck is and the reason I'm given, "Yeah, I don't watch NBC."

    I'd really like to see one of the Thursday night shows moved to Monday and see how they do in comparison to Chuck. Really, let's see if they can pull off a win for NBC. I doubt they ever would because they have it nicely set up on Thursday and it would go lose viewership Monday nights. So NBC has some of the blame here, not saying all of it but they do have some of it. By The Numbers says that last week overall NBC averaged 6.1 million viewers, that's not at all very far off from the number of viewers that watched Chuck.

    The best thing that the show has going for it outside of the show is it's fan base. We aren't the biggest, but we are the loudest. Quality over quantity can be a good thing. Probably not enough to save the show but enough to make the network take some notice.

    So tired of this WT/WT myself, but not between C/S, but from the programming people up at the network. Either renew it already or cancel it. Give the fans some form of respect on this front. I believe we deserve that much. I don't want to see the show go, I'd rather that it be moved to another night, but I don't want to be treated like a middle child either and be ignored or have to wait for them to decide they have time for us. I feel that I'm being played, I don't know how the rest of you feel, but this is my personal feeling.

    If the show does go I'll be crushed. I'll have no reason to drive home at a Fast and Furious pace Monday nights to catch the second half of it. This is the only show I actually do that for. Every other one I can wait for the video to be posted online the next day.

    Well I think I've said everything I had in mind right now. Magnus I'm sure you'll prepare a nicely worded response to my post, but be kind. We are all on the same side here. ;-)

    N.G.

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  114. Paul you're definitely correct, although my position has a little more nuance. It's not that I don't like that Sarah's acted more one way than the other. Certainly it was necessary that she act excessively puny for a time before finding a balance. It's the duration over which she's done so in what was to be a thirteen episode season. I'm very grateful that we have the back 6 episodes where hopefully we'll see Sarah reach towards some sort of balance much as Chuck has done over the course of season.

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  115. I am banning "puny Sarah." It is such a dumb thing to say that it offends me as an intellectual that bright people use it. So, find a way to project this notion without using moron-speak to get it across.

    Thanks.

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  116. "weaselone, she is not still that woman. Her "Sam" realization in 3.08 has forever changed who she is and who she will become. She may still have the Sarah Walker skill-set and experience, but she is now a woman who would walk away from Sarah Walker in a second if given an excuse."

    Sorry but I don't buy that POV. In my opinion the Sarah part is still the dominant part within her. Sam is just a long gone memory. Case in point, the end of American Hero. She chose Chuck, ok, but when Shaw came around with work that needed to be done she didn't say fark off open the spy phonebook and find somebody else to help you. She went along, she just wanted to call Chuck to let him know she wasn't coming. Shaw didn't kidnap her, he was forceful alright but she didn't really put up a fight, she knew there was work to be done and she went along. The excuse to walk away from Sarah Walker was there, she didn't really take it did she?

    John

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  117. John, you may not buy it but it is accurate. She went with Shaw because SHE WAS RUNNING AWAY WITH CHUCK. So, she had to maintain the illusion that she wasn't and do what HER BOSS told her to do.

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  118. Magnus, that may become apparent through dialogue in an upcoming episode, I don't have the benefit of knowing what will happen. I just call what I see on screen. So you may be right down the road, but as of the end of American Hero that's what I think. Part of the fun of character evolution though is not tying myself to a preset opinion and being ready to change your view, so I m open to it.

    What I can tell you though is this, I do hope the writers get Sarah to start vocalizing what's she thinks a bit more often.

    John

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  119. John, it should be clear to anyone following the story now. And Sarah has done more vocalizing how what she feels and how she thinks in this season than the other two. Hell, she has done it more in one episode than all of the first two seasons.

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  120. Lord Magnus,

    Great podcast. Never edit it again. I enjoyed the episode more than 3.11. I have watched it again a few times and it is good but not as good as Tic Tac.

    Based on your observations on the podcast, I agree that Sarah's "affections" towards Shaw did seem forced and it was difficult to truly believe it.

    What was your take on the two kisses? Sarah seemed to reciprocate Shaw's kiss more than she did Chuck's.

    Regardless, Yvonne really nailed it, when Chuck mentioned they can run away to Mexico. You saw her face just change every so slightly that made it even more powerful.

    Looking forward to next week.

    Vlad

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  121. Magnus - Loved the overall tone and excitement of the last podcast - you guys were almost giddy - A definite contrast to the harsh and abrasive tone from the previous one. Kind of mirrors the overall feel of the show. Not sure you do that intentionally - but it works for me.
    :)
    I'm enjoying where the show is right now -
    I don't care much for how it's happened.
    Chuck's behaviour and character: I couldn't decide if he was a tumble weed - or a jellyfish... it will be very satisfying when he can start to predict/ plan/anticipate rather than always react. Who wants to go through life always being the victim of circumstances beyond your control? [ Both as a spy - and Love]
    I'm a little dissappointed that Sarah wasn't in Love with the Chuck the guy.
    He still needed to be her Hero - to prove himself...
    She still has her list of conditions. hmmm...
    It'll be interesting to see how the guilt angle affects her - when she finds out she killed Shaw's wife. She's been questioning her spy life for too long - the selfdoubt and questions will only increase.
    Lots of big questions remain:
    Casey as a civilian? His wife and daughter?
    Ellie and Devon off to Africa?
    Jeff and Lester - FBI agents?
    [ Outstanding deep under cover work]
    Big Mike - trying to become the new poster boy for Subway?

    Gotta love the way we get swept up in the story.
    Cheers - the Gringo Chuck Fan

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  122. Just catching up on some of the other comments here and wanted to say this...

    I think both Sarah and Chuck needed to realize that each of them has to reach a compromise on their 'alter ego' selves (for lack of a better term) in order to be together.

    To illustrate, in the scene where Chuck expresses his love multiple times for Sarah, he expressly and emphatically states "I love YOU, SARAH WALKER" and that is true, he does love that Sarah Walker that he knows. The one who is a kick arse spy AND the one who is a nice friend who helps him track down his Dad (this action is probably more "Sam" like). I think Chuck is the only person who has ever known Sarah as BOTH people, both personalities and that is her best! When Chuck said this to her, I think a light kind of went off in her head.

    Same thing with Sarah loving Chuck. She has such a hard time rectifying him becoming too much of a spy and losing his morals, as she's seen countless people who are spies and how it has changed them. Chuck is different and I think she realized that in all the speeches Chuck gave her leading up to and before Casey's reveal. He asked her to 'trust' him, the same thing she has asked of him many times to do in the past years. She finally did blindly put her trust in that one thing, because in the end, she believes that his "Chuckness" will always be there, even as he evolved into a spy.

    Anyway, I think we've just seen both characters come to a realization they love the other for all aspects of who they have become, over the evolution of their relationship.

    Hope that all made sense...

    On an ending note, I wanted to respond to N.G.'s comment above about being tired of the WT/WT we are getting from NBC regarding renewal. ITA agree sir/madame, the most frustrating of all :D

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  123. Christine, it is a bit funny that you said what you said. I can't tell you why, right now, but one day I will. :)

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  124. Magnus - I've copied a text from Wiki...
    Regarding a critical analysis of the Nielsen rating system... Maybe Chuck fans should start a campaign to overhaul the Nielsen Ratings!!!

    "There are only 25,000 total American households that participate in the Nielsen daily metered system. The number of U.S. television households as of 2009 is 114,500,000. As a result, the total number of Nielsen homes only amounts to 0.02183% of the total American television households, meaning that 99.97817% of American households have no input at all into what is actually being watched. Compounding matters is the fact that of the sample data that is collected, advertisers will not pay for time shifted (recorded for replay at a different time) programs rendering the 'raw' numbers useless."

    What a dinosaur of Corporate American Crap!
    With so many local programs - Cable- Satellite - and online streaming programs available - they act like there is still a Big 3 of Television.
    Take a look at what's happened to the rest of Corporate America - especially the auto sector.
    There needs to be room for a quality product to survive in the big marketplace.

    Grrrr - the Gringo Chuck Fan

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  125. @Gringo Chuck Fan
    Sarah was absolutely in love with Chuck the guy. She just didn't know that Chuck still existed. Her main issue was the fact that he wanted to be an agent so bad that he was losing sight of Chuck the guy.

    meghan

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  126. I've just rewatched the episode. I'm with Blunth... Casey is a shipper;)

    By the way, Magnus, I've just voted for your podcast, well deserved voted, You are starting to have my respect.

    MHR19

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  127. oh great...funny in a good or bad way :D

    and tell me sooner or later ;)

    I know you're going to say, "You'll just have to wait and see", but no harm in my asking, right? tee hee!

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  128. @Meghan - so why did Chuck lock Sarah in Castle and go and save Shaw?
    He had basically given up on his own chances for happiness with her - at that point of their relationship - she's made a committment to DC and to Shaw... Chuck had just walked in on a moment of passion between S/S. I give Chuck credit. Not alot of guys would do what Chuck did. It goes back to the whole TicTac theme - of choices and consequenses.
    Chuck's act of courage and self sacrifice won her back... it wasn't like she sat and considered what a great guy he has always been.

    The Sarah thing with Shaw - believeable - realistic - justified or other... was where
    she was headed.
    Sarah might have had love for Chuck someplace - but I don't think Chuck was feeling it.

    Sorry Meghan- I think you were a little to hopeful. Cheers - the Gringo Chuck Fan

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  129. Interesting podcast...

    I actually liked the part where you guys started talking about how it wasn't believable that Shaw loves, let alone cares about Sarah in any way..

    Watching the beefcake and comparing it to the mask, my reaction after watching these episodes were completely different in spite of the fact that they both seemingly put the Charah relationship in the dark. While in beefcake I was really sort of emotional, in the mask I practically didn't feel anything except utter disgust in the execution of the story. At first I thought the reason was I was just less passionate about the show now, but then obviously that's not the case since I still religiously follow everything about it. So what was it?

    Thanks to you guys I realized what it was! It's the simple fact that the portrayal of the Shaw character never seemed to be a real threat to C/S. I just couldn't buy that Sarah will ever fall for a guy who doesn't even seem to care about her. It was so unbelievable that I actually even considered what some were saying that she was just playing him in case he was a mole. That's how bad it was. For comparison just look at the way Barker was pursuing sarah, or even Bryce to some extent. These two other guys were also top spies as well and yet you could feel that they genuinely care about her. That S/S arc was so ridiculously done it could have very well been just Casey in season 1, trying to pursue Sarah.. Finally it's over...

    -yuri

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  130. Oh BTW, I'm not sure if I just skipped it. but I want to know what you guys thought about Chuck not needing to flash to shoot one of the ring agents. Could he be starting to retain some of his skills?

    -yuri

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  131. Gringo Chuck fan:

    I always love it when "fans" talk about the Nielsen system.

    95% of the time you have no idea what you are talking about.

    Leave it to the professionals.

    Diane

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  132. Diane beat me to it.

    People read one or two things about Nielsen and think they have figured it out. Just do what I tell ya to do and like it. ;)

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  133. 20) Here is my take on Teaser 20 with additional Imagination running rampant. After Casey’s former commander contacted him, Casey had suspicions that someone in his group was feeding the ring information. He based this on the following questions: How did the Ring know where Shaw was staying, how did the Ring Know that Devon was at the Hotel, how did the Ring know that castle was located under the Buy-More, why did Shaw leave Chuck at the Buy-More knowing that he could not flash, How did Keller know what ring phone to call and that Casey would answer it. Casey being the supreme spy he is questioned either Shaw or Sarah loyalty to the NSA. Casey being the true spy he is trusted General Beckman and devised a plan with her to follow along with Keller’s request appear to all that he was committing treason and be kicked out of the NSA. However only Beckman knew of the plan and Casey was operating as an agent following his main assignment which was to keep Chuck Safe. Shaw, Sarah and Chuck thought that Casey was no longer and Shaw was used this to his advantage. In “The Other Guy” Casey will again be lurking in the shadows keeping Chuck safe hoping that Shaw will lead him to the leader of the Ring. In the final scenes Casey will show up at just the right time taking out the imminent danger allowing the distraction Chuck and Sarah will need to kick butt and escape. Now with the Ring knowing full well who is who, and that Sarah is now a marked target and after viewing surveillance photos of the train station, Beckman assumed that Chuck and Sarah were going to run. Beckman alerted Casey and decided to tell Chuck and Sarah their plan and alert Chuck and Sarah that the Ring has put a bounty on Sarah’s head and that the safest place for them is in the protective custody of John Casey. Being under the protection of Casey, they all agreed that they could continue being spies. Beckman also reminds them that they are a great team and how they should stick together. Chuck and Sarah agree and decide not to run but travel together with Casey and see the world as world class spies. All I know about the Neislon ratings is that they do not take into consideration the passion of the die hard Chuck fans.

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No flaming, baiting, trolling, expletives, or racism allowed. And NO DISCUSSIONS of the actor's personal lives ever.