We discuss CHUCK 5.07 and the art of kickpunching.
The language is horrendous, offensive, and unbecoming of human beings. People with delicate ears and dispositions should avoid it.
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WOW!!!
ReplyDeleteDid you just give away the entire secret of the next episode at the 20 minute mark.
I think that would make a good surprise for Sarah's character.
I'm not sure why that would be such a big deal that Sarah can no longer see her mother anymore.
Although i'm guessing they will give an explaination.
I agree completely about Shaw.
I have always thought that his character was well written and his motivations made sense.
As one of the five people who listens to the podcast, I wish you two a wonderful weekend/holiday.
ReplyDeleteThis podcast was a pleasure to listen to. Agree with everything you said about the episode.
It wasn't just a good episode, but the set-up for the next one has to be one of the cleverest things they've done and the people who did the promo worked it perfectly with the last scene.
It's just super-fun seeing the freak outs and the speculation when I suspect NO ONE is getting it right who doesn't already know what's going to happen.
I also want to applaud Fedak for going with the "Chuck doesn't need the intersect" them when most fans--myself included--assumed that they would return to that crutch by now. It's made for some surprising plot turns and character development. After last week's promo, most people thought Chuck was getting it back in this episode.
If he does eventually get it back, they need to come up with a truly dire circumstance to justify why he even needs it.
I guess I am also one of the five people who listen. Anyway, enjoyed he podcast as usual. You guys crack me up. I too am enjoying everyones freak out over the promo for next week. Enjoy your weekend and Happy Holidays!
ReplyDeleteJennifer
Taco Bell, as well as Pizza Hut and KFC, are owned by Yum! Brands, Inc, not Pepsico. :)
ReplyDeleteThe whole 'Shaw still having the intersect in prison', just a thought that maybe that when they locked up shaw at the end of season 3, they didn't have the de-intersect glasses they used on volkof and chuck in season 4 created yet and since shaw was blackmailing decker to work for him, decker wouldn't de-intersect shaw once the glasses has been created (or shaw flashed on decker before he could de-intersect him in the first place)
ReplyDeleteI actually gave my explination for why Shaw still had the Intersect in my review over at GeekFurious.com.
ReplyDelete"Taco Bell, as well as Pizza Hut and KFC, are owned by Yum! Brands, Inc, not Pepsico"
ReplyDeleteYeah, a spin-off from Pepsico that will forever carry Pepsi products due to some lifetime contract with them.
Got a kick out of Morgan trying to lift Sarah in that chair. Honestly though, I just thought it was that Morgan was weak, and I couldn't stop laughing!
ReplyDeleteI kind of expected Morgan to use his body to warm up Sarah and then Sarah waking up being all wtf are you doing!
ReplyDeleteExplination? I can't believe I typed that.
ReplyDeleteEXPLANATION!
I cant believe Sarah has a baby. I never watch this show again if it turns out to be Sarah baby. She lied to Chuck about having baby and then she abandoned it. This will ruin Sarah Walker character.
ReplyDeleteAlso it will taint Chuck and Sarah. This was a stupid cliffhanger and will destroy the whole show for me.
ReplyDeleteWoohoo! CRAZY!
ReplyDeleteinstead of jumping the gun just wait and watch the next ep.it's maybe not what some of you think.Just enjoy the show,we got only 6 ep left!
ReplyDeleteSarah has been with chuck, then Bryce, then cat squad and then secret service. Having a child is something the president, cat squad, Bryce or chuck would have noticed. Say ......her having a baby bump? This is so obviously something else...the baby most likely will be a macguffin to explain her relationship (or lack of) with her mom.
ReplyDeleteBut I guess the obvious is what most crazy people miss on the Internet. Along with what actual adults and adults in relationships behave like. Ugh.
Good episode. I actually liked the freezing makeup (I watch in HD). It looked cold and hollow. She played freezing great too. Anyway, my only nitpick is that Zac or the director or whoever should have played Chuck with a bit more urgency. I appreciate his maturation (and thank, god, lack of hand wringing)and his focus on the plan, but I felt he was almost too laid back about it. Seeming too at ease with the whole Beckman mission, cracking a couple of jokes etc, his reaction at having Sarah call and say she was ok and just taking it in stride, having a conversation with Morgan after realizing Sarah is still in trouble (just below him in Castle), he and Ellie having a moment when for all they know Sarah, Casey, Morgan could be dead.
ReplyDeleteThat's a nitpick, though, otherwise I liked the Buy More integration, it was good and funny. Ellie getting a bit of revenge on Shaw was also a nice touch.
Also, when Sarah thanked Chuck, and he said that Morgan technically saved her, he should have noted that Ellie technically saved him :)
The baby thing looks like a great twist and peeps should just chill out, but I guess they actually like working themselves in a lather, so whatever.
Also, I read on somewhere that the writer of this also co-wrote Chuck vs. Family Volkoff last year
Merry Christmas everybody! Be safe, be happy, drink a lot!
"Zac or the director or whoever should have played Chuck with a bit more urgency. I appreciate his maturation (and thank, god, lack of hand wringing)and his focus on the plan, but I felt he was almost too laid back about it. Seeming too at ease with the whole Beckman mission, cracking a couple of jokes etc, his reaction at having Sarah call and say she was ok and just taking it in stride, having a conversation with Morgan after realizing Sarah is still in trouble (just below him in Castle), he and Ellie having a moment when for all they know Sarah, Casey, Morgan could be dead."
ReplyDeleteBut somebody should realise and fix his performance right????
You don't make a Christmas episode all depressing. That's why Chuck is at times very upbeat. Also, it amplifies the tension every time you go back to Castle. It's all laid out by the writers, director, producers etc before they shoot the show. How dark do we go? Where do we keep it light? Does it make sense? Is it making sense more important than it being entertaining?
ReplyDeleteIn this instance, by not having Chuck in a constant state of depression, the episode had the darkness without it becoming a downer episode. On that front, I think they were nearly perfect. Any nitpick about the tone is an effort by the viewer to have a problem with it.
To pick up on that, they did throw in little moments that showed Chuck was still concerned. After he calls out Shaw to come up to the Buy More, you can still see on the video screen while he is waiting that he's a bit on edge.
ReplyDeleteWe had enough of "fretful Chuck" last week and that felt more wrong than this week's "in control" Chuck. I like this Chuck. I just flashed back to what Beckman said to him before she before she fired him in Pink Slip about good spies needed to be in control of their emotions. He's that spy now.
Here's what Ninja #1 says about it:
ReplyDelete"The lack of a more personal scene between Chuck and Sarah doesn't mean it didn't happen. It happened off-screen. The audience sees them after they had their hourlong hugging and kissing."
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ReplyDeleteWatch that language.
ReplyDelete"I cant believe Sarah has a baby. I never watch this show again if it turns out to be Sarah baby. She lied to Chuck about having baby and then she abandoned it. This will ruin Sarah Walker character."
ReplyDeleteHee-hee-hee.
Makes one reconsider that pre-nup, doesn't it?
Thinking of the lack of a real pre-nup, it makes me wonder if Chuck and Sarah's frozen $32 million will ever be unfrozen or mentioned again.
They may need to fight over it in the impending divorce over keeping the baby a secret.
Is that the secret name of episode 512? Chuck vs. The Divorce Settlment?
Excuse me "Settlement"
ReplyDeleteRegarding the quote from Ninja #1 above: did this actually need to be stated? I mean are there actually people out there who think that nothing happens in this fictional world unless we see it on screen? I'm aware that babies have trouble with concepts like object permanence, but they're, you know...babies.
ReplyDeleteOn a different topic, Merry Christmas (or other more appropriate holiday of your choice) to one and all!
Jim
Jim, I left out the part where Ninja #1 said "duh!" ;)
ReplyDeleteMerry Christmas!
What would say your ninja#2 or ninja#3??? You've got them???:)))
ReplyDeleteNinja #1 is the person I go to for behind the scenes stuff and for impressions of the episodes. Ninja #2 is a totally different type of source. Ninja #3 is actually called Kermit 1. Why? Can't tell ya. :) And there is a Ninja #4 but we shall never speak of that one again. :o)
ReplyDeleteI hope Chuck kick her to the curb. She tainted now.
ReplyDeleteNo worries. In 5.12, Chuck Versus the Kick to the Curb, you will get your wish.
ReplyDeleteI liked the episode a lot. And I don´t have a problem with any hourlong hugging and kissing happening off-screen.
ReplyDeleteI still would have liked some emotionally heavier scene between Chuck and Sarah. I just like seeing Chuck being comforting or worrying about Sarah, like they often show her with him. There have been quite a few instances with Sarah thinking Chuck died and they always showed her reaction.
I don´t doubt that there was some tearful reunion after Chuck gave Sarah the antidote in Cliffhanger either, even though we didn´t get to see that, because they wanted to include the funeral misdirect.
But there aren´t that many opportunities to show Chuck being extremly concerned for Sarah´s safety, because she is normally more than capable to take care of herself and he has a lot of confidence in her abilities. And I like that. But if she is put through the ringer more than usually, I would like to see some reaction to that.
Everything else worked pretty much perfectly for me. The Chuck and Ellie scenes were very heartfelt and I loved that Ellie got to take down Shaw. I also didn´t had a problem with Casey. He has been shot quite often, but it was a believable way to take him out of the equation for defeating Shaw and it helped showing how merciless Shaw was ready to act. And I really loved him escaping with the electronic bear.
I was also pleasently surprised by the idea to have Shaw behind the whole conspiracy. That was a much better solution than I expected.
Anyway it´s no use to lament my one nit-pick with the episode to death. So I´ll stop that and just wish everyone Happy Holidays. Hope everyone has a wonderful time.
Sarah having a baby wouldn't make logical sense but that doesn't mean the writers won't go there.
ReplyDeletetelevision writers and realism.
loved the podcast, thanks :)
ReplyDeleteS.
I love how everyone says that Sarah having a baby would taint her character....since we have known he chuck has been with Jill, Hannah and Sarah. Sarah has been with chuck and maybe shaw....3 versus 2! Who is the tramp now? Answer = Chuck. Also Sarah is a spy, seduction is part of her profession....as carina said...you try people on and then leave them or kill them.
ReplyDeleteCrazy shipper double standard.
ReplyDeleteI think it will be revealed that Chuck has had a torrid affair with Alex, a one night stand with Beckman and a Ménage à trois with the CAT Squad.
ReplyDeleteIf this happens this will really ruin the Sarah Walker character for me.
Oh...I forgot, I'll never watch the show again. (Until next week)
While I don't believe it's Sarah child.
ReplyDeleteI think if they made it hers, it would not show her character in positive light at all.
So she had a child, gave it away to her mother and is wife of Chuck for quite some time, but not even once mentioned about it. And it has nothing to do with "how many people Sarah or Chuck has been with before", since those things are completely unrelated.
Siemon
Some people are just not very bright.
ReplyDeleteDoes that make them bad people? Probably not.
But it makes them a bit slow on figuring things out.
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ReplyDeleteThe promo tells you what happens if you pay close enough attention.
ReplyDeleteI hope it can continue the streak of good episodes.
This comment has nothing to do what I think will happen, but about the reaction to the "if Sarah had a kid but didn't tell chuck" speculation.
ReplyDeleteMillions of women every year get pregnant when they can't see how they can be a mother to that child. They have to options: abortion or giving the baby up for adoption.
Both choices are very difficult. But, they are advised to put it behind them. They really don't have any requirement to ever talk about it again.
Yet, it seems like many men who have commented about Sarah being "tainted" think otherwise. If a woman you fall in love with had made such a difficult life decision about it and doesn't want to talk about it or even tell you about it, why do you think she is "tainted"?
Why do you think you even have to know? Isn't it the relationship you have with this woman in the here and now what's important.
I'm really offended by these "tainted" comments. They are very insensitive to what women who have gone through this had to deal with.
Only on the internet would people post stupid stuff like this...on the internet people can say that life is black and white and if you have a child and give it up that makes you a bad person. The fact is these people posting this crap would not say it 9 times out of 10 in real life.
ReplyDeleteIf they did they would be distubed wierdos, there is no ending to the stupidity of certain internet fans.
I didn´t take these comments very seriously, but they probably are.
ReplyDeleteWhen I watched the promo the first time in a bad stream version right after the ep, I did think that this might have been Sarah´s baby and I posted that I wouldn´t like that. I don´t think that the baby is Sarah´s anymore, so this is also not about what I think will happen.
However for me not liking the idea of the baby being Sarah´s has nothing to do with her not telling Chuck. In fact it has nothing to do with the character of Chuck at all.
I just thought, that it would feel strange that the show had never hinted about something like this being in Sarah´s past at all. Maybe that would even be fine, because she might have put it so firmly behind her, that she didn´t think about it when Clara was born or when Chuck brought up children.
But for the show it would just feel tacked on and like they missed a lot of opportunities to show us more about Sarah´s character. Because whatever they decide to show us in the next episode, I highly doubt they had planned it when the series first started. And I like it much better if a backstory, that is revealed has been in the back of the mind of the showrunners since they started the show.
Anyway I don´t think it will be Sarah´s baby at all and I just wanted to clarify that my disliking of the idea has nothing to do with Sarah being "tainted" if that is the case.
I am not a man, though. And I am not terribly surprised by comments like that, because they creep up whenever there is something on the show, that even suggests, that Sarah wasn´t a virgin when she met Chuck. Even though that was completely obvious by the pilot. And if anything Chuck had a bigger problem with his flash of her shooting people.
However I disliked the way they handled Sarah telling Chuck about Shaw kissing her in the latest ep, because it went in that direction.
Shaw beat her up and pretty much tortured her. Him kissing her was very much part of that and not something Sarah needed to confess to Chuck. Much less something he needed to forgive. Yet he looked vaguely jealous and countered with the story of Beckman kissing her, which was so very very different. It wasn´t that terribly important, but it made that final Chuck/Sarah scene leave a bad taste in my mouth.
And I hope whatever Chuck will find out about Sarah in the next ep, he will be supportive instead of focusing on the fact, that she hadn´t told him before.
I read DearDR, i don't think it's Sarah baby, but this post, as the last is just for the sake of argument.
ReplyDeleteMediaSavant, of course it's like that in really real world, but this is Chuck and this show doesn't tackle such issues.
It's not about being tainted, but the show never even hinted such thing or show Sarah interest in babies.
Since Sarah is surrounded by loving family and friends it makes no sense that she would keep baby a secret, especially since Sarah said "no secret, no lies"...and being preggo before is pretty big one.
Frankly if Chuck kept similar secret from Sarah I would have been as annoyed. I remember the nonsense about him lying left and right during second half of season 3 for no apparent reason other than being an asshat and I thought it was bad too.
Not to mention Sarah having a secret baby is such an soap opperish storyline.
Siemon
The kiss confession stuff was put in there so that we could have Sarah's reaction to finding out about Beckman, which then led into the general telling Sarah about Shaw.
ReplyDeleteSure, part of that scene is about the male perspective that his woman is his territory (even if the male writers on the show aren't aware of it, most males are born with it), and I think that is where a large portion of the crazy shipper insanity comes from. These are mostly males who think Sarah is their woman and that were they Chuck, she would be tainted if she didn't tell them about the Shaw kiss.
And then she would be tainted if she had a child years before she met Chuck. She would also be tainted if she slept with anyone before Chuck. She would be tainted if she even kissed another man before Chuck. She would be tainted if she ever had sex with anyone, ever.
And so on.
As for the show springing this baby on the audience and it not matching up... yeah. It really doesn't match up. This is OF COURSE a retcon (retroactive continuity). I don't know how much they try to make it work with established story, but there will definitely be people who won't like it.
ReplyDeleteHowever, the ninja doesn't seem worried about it. Then again, he is like me and cares more about execution than things fitting together perfectly. So far, I have agreed with him on every episode in this season. So, I expect 5.08 will be another good episode.
I don´t see how Sarah would necessarily have to have shown an interest in babies, if she gave one away. Or that she absolutely must have shared that fact because she is surrounded by Chuck and his family.
ReplyDeleteNo matter what happened with that baby, Sarah obviously hasn´t told Chuck what the deal is with her and her mother. And I don´t really see that as problematic. She did say that her relationship with her family is complicated and that she didn´t want to share that. Chuck seemed to accept that. For me those "no secret, no lies" thing looked to be more about currently relevant things.
In short I don´t have a problem with Sarah not revealing everything about her past to Chuck and I wouldn´t have a problem with it being the other way around either.
I just like it better, if a show has their character´s backstories worked out in the beginning and uses subtle clues throughout before they completely reveal it. But I shouldn´t really expect that after the Orion/Mary/Agent X stuff. They obviously didn´t do that with this show.
And that doesn´t necessarily mean the episode has to suck. I liked all the earlier episodes that dealt with Sarah´s backstory very much. And I enjoy conflict between Chuck and Sarah, if it isn´t derived from one of them acting completely stupid.
"The kiss confession stuff was put in there so that we could have Sarah's reaction to finding out about Beckman, which then led into the general telling Sarah about Shaw."
ReplyDeleteI get that. And I liked the way they handled the Chuck/Beckman kiss. Because that was funny. And they obviously thought opening with Shaw kissing Sarah was a good way to get there.
It just rubbed me the wrong way, because nothing about the Shaw/Sarah stuff in Castle was funny and didn´t look like it was supposed to be. So for me it didn´t quite fit, that they dealt with it in the same vein as the obviously funny stuff in the Chuck/Beckman mission part of the episode. Like I said, I didn´t need any hourlong hugging or kissing. Just something that was more appropriate for dealing with the very serious part of the Shaw torturing Sarah part of the ep. Instead the whole conversation was kept light with Chuck listing his accomplishments and refering to all the saving that was going on.
Chuck and Ellie´s conversation managed to have the required emotional heaviness about the fact, that their dad has been murdered and that they miss him and was still fitting perfectly with the lighter Christmas Party tone.
"I just like it better, if a show has their character´s backstories worked out in the beginning"
ReplyDeleteThen you take a show like LOST, where the show runners said they didn't plan anything out and they were able to do retcons left and right without it seeming idiotic at every turn.
"Just something that was more appropriate for dealing with the very serious part of the Shaw torturing Sarah part of the ep"
ReplyDeleteThough, wouldn't it be a bit patronizing to show Chuck having to comfort her in some way? The big man taking care of his little wife's feelings?
I very much enjoyed LOST. And I agree, that it is definitely possible to do retcons right. And maybe most tv shows do use them, because of the nature of it, with the creators often having no idea how many episodes they will get to tell their story.
ReplyDeleteHowever I still love books and movies revealing something and making it possible to look back and find lots of subtle clues dropped before that reveal. Some tv shows probably do that as well.
"Though, wouldn't it be a bit patronizing to show Chuck having to comfort her in some way? The big man taking care of his little wife's feelings?"
You are probably not serious here, but I get that they can never please everybody and some people really might have argued that way.
Sarah comforts Chuck all the time, though. So I don´t see much merit in that hypothetical complaint.
And Chuck usually doesn´t take the crazy shipper approach of viewing everything as possibly tainting Sarah, even if he used to get very jealous. So to have them use only that light beat to deal with what happened was still dissappointing to me. Especially because one short exchange in a different tone before they got to the Chuck/Beckman kiss could have easily fixed it.
Chuck and Sarah have an honest and mature conversation and people are complaining? Nitpicking much?
ReplyDeleteSarah likes to avoid her emotional past or telling chuck things that might tarnish his view of her and this scene shows growth that she is comfortable with opening up to chuck.
The same goes for chuck, he took it into his stride and showed maturity and made his wife smile...growth.
I think Magnus is wrong it is not 17 year olds like Adrian posting here it is 5 year olds.
Gina, you are a bit extreme.
ReplyDeleteThough, I do agree that Sarah has always seemed to worry about how Chuck will view her if he were to find out some things. That is realistic... in fact, I just had a conversation with a significant woman in my life where she explained how she doesn't care how others see her, just how I see her (more or less).
@Gina
ReplyDeleteCome on, not everybody, who doesn´t agree with you has to be a child.
The reactions you described would have fit wonderfully, if Shaw kissing Sarah was in any way in the same realm as Beckman kissing Chuck. If he hadn´t been torturing her or Sarah would have kissed someone for a mission.
I don´t think missing some heavier dialog about or some deeper emotions in a scene dealing with Sarah having been beaten and assaulted makes me five. And I am not people, just one person, thank you.
Or does not adoring every single part of an episode make you a five year old? Is Magnus five, because he didn´t like Casey getting shot again?
Seriously, I am fine with you liking how they played that scene. I found it lacking but still very much enjoyed the episode as a whole. Sorry if that bothers you that much.
I like your passion, Gina, but... turn down the volume a bit. Especially when talking to someone who is being very reasonable.
ReplyDeleteIt doesn't bother me that we didn't see Sarah and Chuck have that serious talk about the torture or what they went through. It's a conversation I would expect them to have when they were alone and saving for that time. It might even be bedtime talk as they inspect each other's various cuts bruises. (Free fanfic scenario!)
ReplyDeleteI accept that we don't see every interaction between these characters. Both "post-torture" scenes were them in a group or at a festive party. The talk with Ellie fits because Chuck isn't going home with Ellie. This is his chance to have that conversation.
Chuck and Sarah's discussion is brief and light because they know they have plenty of time later to discuss in detail if they want to in the comfort of their own home.
We just don't get to see all of those scenes.
My remarks were not directed specifically at you Awelle. It was directed at fans who have consistently moaned when Chuck used to whine and be neurotic and wanted him to grow up. It is to the fans who get annoyed that Sarah never opened up to Chuck about her feelings.
ReplyDeleteThat ending scene is really a great payoff for all those fans, yet they are so concerned with nitpicking that they totally missed that they were getting what they wanted in the first place.
Going back to Lost (which was mentioned above)...I now see why they never bothered to answer everything. You just cannot please people even when you do give them what they want. Even if they answered every question and every mystery fans would still crap on the show. That is disappointing to be honest, my remarks were not at you but fans that probably are not fans but people who just want to crap on everything for no particular reason other then make other people miserable with them.
Never mind.
I apologise if you think I was speaking directly at you Awelle, I was not.
ReplyDeleteAhh, I see. Just seemed like you were. Never mind. :)
ReplyDeleteThere are certain types of fans in every fandom who tend to have the loudest voices. And they tend to be the most unreasonable. And their dissatisfaction is what bloggers, online journalists, and sometimes even print journalists latch onto. And then the general public, not as invested in the online realm, begin to have that dissatisfaction trickle down to their world of perfect contention/happiness, and realize they aren't supposed to like what they saw.
ReplyDeleteThe lesser willed then change their opinion to fit what they think is popular, because we are all just living out the rest of our adulthood as scared high school kids trying to fit in.
Thanks Magnus, it´s nice to know I don´t come off as being completely unreasonable. Although I did say, I would stop harping on that point and didn´t follow through with that. ;)
ReplyDeleteThe talk about Sarah being tainted just reminded me, that this was the beat that bothered me in that discussion.
I also agree, that Sarah worrying about the way Chuck sees her is realistic and fits well with Sarah´s character. It just didn´t fit will with the nature or circumstances of Shaw kissing her in my opinion.
Had the event that Sarah wanted to confess to Chuck been lighter, I would have thought the resolution was played very well. But the Sarah/Shaw segment and Chuck´s mission with Beckman were very different in tone. And that worked well in the episode for me until they decided to resolve it in the same tone. And I do realize, that it is a rather small part of the episode.
@Gina
Ok, fair enough. But as far is this comments section go, I am the only one who has complained about it and I didn´t feel like getting all those motivations assigned to me. Especially because I don´t have a problem with how much Sarah is opening up to Chuck and my problem with Chuck´s reaction had nothing to do with me thinking he was whiny and neurotic. Like I said, I agree that their reactions were in character. I just didn´t think they fit very well with the event causing them.
@MediaSavant
That´s a good point, about Chuck having many more opportunities to talk to Sarah than he has to talk to Ellie.
However the way they played it, Sarah hadn´t talked about Shaw kissing her before, so that still looked like his first reaction. I do get that there is stuff happening off-screen. I just want them to more carefully select what is shown on screen.
On a side note... I nearly just had a heart attack when I went to pay my student loan bill and the monthly payment had tripled.
ReplyDeleteI kid you not... TRIPLED!
Wow... talk about ruining the holidays.
Alright, back to Chuck and Sarah!
I have nothing against online forums but the greatest thing I did for myself while watching lost was to ignore the Internet completely and just enjoy the show on my own terms. It was actually by accident that this happened but was still valuable. I actually only learned of online fandoms when searching for spoilers for chuck versus the final exam and found your site.
ReplyDeleteCan they actually do that? Triple your bills I mean.... In the UK they determine how much you pay based on your annual salary and it is still not high.
ReplyDeleteGina, I never went to a LOST forum during that show's run. And I loved virtually every minute of that show (other than that episode that explained the history of you know who and you know who, as kids).
ReplyDeleteBSG was a show I was very involved in, on many levels, and CHUCK kind of replaced that passion for me. So, coming right out of CHUCK into BSG, I see many familiar trends, but the big difference has been the shippers. BSG shippers were more fun and you could play around with them.
Though, to be fair to CHUCK shippers, they are pussycats compared to SMALLVILLE shippers.
"Can they actually do that?"
ReplyDeleteYep... because it was a private student loan. I don't have the same protection. That one loan was the dumbest thing I ever did.
"The lesser willed then change their opinion to fit what they think is popular, because we are all just living out the rest of our adulthood as scared high school kids trying to fit in."
ReplyDeleteThat is true and sad. It may also contribute to tv shows generally loosing viewers the longer they are on.
But in a way that same dynamic makes it harder to voice any form of dissatisfaction. I also get annoyed by generic cries of "Sarah is tainted and never opens up to Chuck." and "Chuck is weak and whiny.".
However that doesn´t mean, that there might be instances where I think that it really doesn´t work to have Sarah keep something from Chuck or feel that it didn´t fit well into an episode and feels contrived. Or that there might not be occasions in which I feel, that Chuck truly does act over the top neurotic and comes off as whiny.
And I refuse to not criticize anything, just because I might be mistaken for a crazy shipper. ;)
I also don´t expect everybody to share my dissatisfaction. People view tv shows for different reasons and with different viewpoints. I won´t ever truly get that male perspective of Sarah being tainted, because I am not male. And then of course there are males, like Magnus (and I hope many more), who can rationalize that perspective, don´t completely share it and make it at least understandable.
@Gina
Thanks, I am all good. And I hear your frustrations. :) I followed online fandoms and I still very much enjoyed LOST. I guess it depends how much stuff like this bothers you.
@Magnus
Sorry about that. Student loans suck. I still have so much to pay off, that I don´t see any light at the end of the tunnel ever, but fortunately they do determine what you have to pay by how much you make here as well. I am glad you at least have a functional computer again. And I would have donated, if I could.
Shippers are kind of odd to me in a way. I mean I understand the chuck ones because the chemistry is so palpable....it even drove some critics who know better to get upset, the most endearing being Mo Ryan.
ReplyDeleteBut how a show like fringe can have shippers where there is no chemistry at all just has my mind in a bend.
awelle, at this point I would prefer not having a functional computer, lol. Then I wouldn't have known. This has totally ruined my day. I should have known things were about to go to hell... everything was going too well!
ReplyDeleteGina, I think the FRINGE shippers were caught up in the story more than the chemistry. They really played those heart-strings perfectly in season 3. But once they were together it was like... oh lord, split them up! There was nothing there.
ReplyDeleteThere are shippers for the oddest pairings. Just goes back to show how everybody views fictional worlds and characters through sometimes very different lenses.
ReplyDeleteI don´t watch Supernatural, but I think there are people shipping those two brothers romantically.
Shows often bank on people shipping pairings. Castle very much set up Beckett and Castle as a bickering "Will they/Won´t they" couple from the very beginning.
I also watch Fringe without really caring that much for the relationship between Peter and Olivia. I enjoy Walter the most and his relationships with everybody.
I did check out reactions to the latest Chuck episodes on tumblr and found quite a few people shipping Sarah and Casey. I don´t see that at all and I guess those people aren´t very loud. I also mostly have the attitude "To each their own.", if people I am talking to aren´t being completely unreasonable or misogynous. And I really don´t like if they start to insult the real people behind fictional characters.
I wish I had something to cheer you up. Bad news like that really do suck. Crappy way to go into a new year. :(
That last part is regarding your crappy student loans and not any shippers, if that wasn´t clear. ;)
ReplyDeleteI also missed a "not" in an earlier post:
"However that doesn´t mean, that there might NOT be instances where I think that it really doesn´t work..."
One thing I will say positive about fandoms is that some are incredibly smart and have made me rethink things in the process and sometimes allowed me to appreciate things more. The mad men ones being some of the best.
ReplyDelete"I wish I had something to cheer you up. Bad news like that really do suck. Crappy way to go into a new year."
ReplyDeleteWord... things just keep getting worse, actually. I guess I will need to figure out a solution within the next two weeks, since I believe I get a grace period (that they don't mention but a kind customer service person once told me that). Maybe I should just try not to worry about it for now and enjoy the rest of the week. But you know how it is, something like this just eats away at you.
Gina, I don't read MAD MEN forums. I barely even read MAD MEN reviews. It is one of those shows I just enjoy without needing much input from others.
ReplyDeleteHeart attack averted!
ReplyDeleteA kind and gentle customer service manager found me a loophole for the time being.
WOOHOO!
Congratulations!
ReplyDeleteVery happy for you. Now you still have a shot at a happy 2012.
Yup... I felt so relieved I decided to do 21-days of CHUCK leading up to the finale, over at GeekFurious.com. Now I just need to figure out what I am going to write about every day.
ReplyDeleteBecause I don't do anything half-arsed. If I am going to write about it for 21-days, it is going to be EPIC!
That sounds great. Does there have to be one thread connecting it all? Or would you also considering featuring different stuff every day?
ReplyDeleteI don't have any plan so... threads, no threads, whatever. Character focus on day. Story arc focus another. Romance. Action. Whatever.
ReplyDeleteAdd an "e" to the end of "on".
ReplyDeleteWell, I always enjoy reading your take on pretty much everything, even though I don´t always agree completely. But if I did, it would be boring what you had to say anyway. ;)
ReplyDeleteSo I am looking forward to read whatever you feel like writing about. I like the characters more than story arcs for the most part. So I would definitely love to read your take on all the characters and their developments.
The next best thing would be all the relationships for me. If you hit every possible permutation of the six main characters, you would get 21 relationships, if I am not mistaken.
Also I am not sure, how much you could write about Casey and Devon´s relationship.
And that is supposed to say
ReplyDelete"...,it would be boring to read..."
Well casey and Devon both like adventure, working out, parenthood, etc. They have probably more in common then one thinks, I loved that season 1 thanks giving dinner scene.....fantastic.
ReplyDeleteis there a possibility that chuck finale episode promo can be released from now razorback??
ReplyDeleteSo far I have... day 1, "What's in a Name?" where I discuss the name of the show. Day 2, "To Ship or Not to Ship?" where I talk about shipping Chuck and Sarah, or not. Day 3, "The Chocolate in Bartowski's Peanut-butter" where I talk specifically about what made the Chuck and Sarah romance so potent. Day 4, "The Bracelet is Important!" where I talk about how fans latch onto props and other things the writers maybe didn't initially mean to be so important in the long run.
ReplyDeleteAll of that sounds really good, although 2 and 3 sound very similar, but you could probably fill all 21 days with that topic. ;)
ReplyDelete2 is more about the competing interests of shippers and anti-shippers. 3 is about people who ship Chuck and Sarah.
ReplyDeleteI mean, WHY people ship Chuck and Sarah.
ReplyDeleteThere is probably something about why people ship Chuck and Sarah that says a lot about them as a person. So it works both ways. ;)
ReplyDeleteAre there really anti-shippers? My very first fandom experience was the X-Files and there were definitely anti-shipper there. They called themselves no-romos, which lead to the other side being labeled shippers. I think that is one of the possible origin stories of that term.
Anyway you are probably referring to people, who don´t only focus on the Chuck/Sarah relationship or care more about other aspects. Or I just never met one of those anti-shippers before and there are people completely opposed to any kind of romance included in the show.
There are definitely anti-shippers in this fandom. You just don't hear from them much, but they are there. And there are those who just don't care about Chuck and Sarah's romance at all.
ReplyDelete@awelle
ReplyDeleteThere are 30 permutations of 2 elements chosen from a set of 6, not 21. Fortunately, what you are after is combinations not permutations (i.e. Chuck + Sarah is identical to Sarah + Chuck for this discussion), and there are 15 of those. So Magnus has loads of time to address each one in living detail. As for not having enough on Casey + Devon, surely you jest. What about their torrid love affair in season 2?
Jim
I can totally accept someone with no interest or investment in the Chuck and Sarah relationship, but the anti-super thing is confusing.I say that specifically about Chuck not as a general statement, because from the outset this show has been presented as being as much about that as about anything. It's not something that's largely a fan construct like in many cases but something the show has actively crammed down our throats for five years.
ReplyDeleteJim
put me in the crowd with those that don't care about the chuck and sarah romance. why would i waste my time hoping that the couple gets together when in about 90% of the time they never do? (90% is a guess btw). it's why i don't bet on 60-1 shots at the track, they almost never win. instead i focus on the other parts of the show.
ReplyDeletetw0073
Anti-shipper means anti-shippers, not anti relationships.
ReplyDelete"Anti-shipper means anti-shippers, not anti relationships."
ReplyDeleteAh, that´s something very different from the no-romo camp with the X-Files then. Because with those people it meant exactly that.
And I did wonder about that, because unlike the X-Files, Chuck definitely started out with romance as an element of the show. People who are against people, who ship does make more sense. Also I am still more firmly in the "To each their own." camp. I guess your article will clarify.
Jim, thanks for catching that. I did mix up those terms and I thought about two six sided dice. So Chuck/Chuck would be one of the relationships. Doesn´t make much sense, but that would bring the number back to 21, wouldn´t it?
@Jim
ReplyDeleteI think the whole Chuck/Sarah thing may be a Josh Schwartz thing that he does on all his shows. I mean on The OC he had Seth/Summer and Ryan/Marrissa. On Gossip Girl he has Chuck/Blair and Serena/Dan....and you can probably tell I bailed a long time ago on Gossipl Girl because they just keep on cycling through relationships that I could not be bothered to keep up because it became sloppy and repetitive. The OC became sloppy and repetative.
TW0073
We should be greatful that Chuck almost always got cancelled or that the Chuck writers thought they were going to be cancelled because you are right they probably would never had paid that off it the ratings were better. I am to this day suprised they did considering Josh's two other shows.
But maybe the chemistry was just too awesome for even them to screw it up. Chuck has just gotten a little repetitive with other stuff like the intersect mythology. Which is ok because I am not too interested in that. I prefer character development.
OOH and I should not pick on Josh scwartz either....Lost as great a series as it was...it got a little repetitive and maddening in seasons 2 and 3. Fringe has just totally lost the plot and gotten really distasteful and obnoxious too bout. Dexter has gone down the toilet since season 4 and so many other shows that had to stall whenever they realised that if they explain something they believed that their whole fan base would go. I mean I think if Lost did not know they had an ending I do not know if they would be as good in seasons 4, 5 and the end of 6.
ReplyDeleteI think all shows should be like that.
If Sarah had a baby in her past you are going to hear jump the shark comments from all the Crazy shippers.
ReplyDeleteThat's a sure bet.
A lot of people are saying it won't be Sarah's baby that Chris Fedak is trying to throw a twist at them.
So they will be in a for a big surprise.
I still don't see the logic in people wanting to kill the baby if it's Sarah's.
ReplyDeleteGranted i haven't seen the episode but still.
With Sarah's comments about her mom in season 4 i'm not sure it's going to make a lot of sense from that perspective either.
I've seen a lot of shows piss off their fans during their final season and with this Chuck is going to join the club.
I'm surprised Chris Fedak is even going there because he's got to know that people won't like it and it's not going to make any sense.
This reminds me of the Monk series finale that the fans of that show absolutely hated.
The baby is not Sarah's I think. What if the someone wanted to kill the baby? Would that be the reason Sarah was scared of baby talk in season 4? Maybe she knows being a spy means that even kids can be used as bait and the possibility that her and chucks child could be used like the baby in the next episode (if it was used as bait)....scares her about having children....this could set up a good reason for Sarah wanting to leave the spy biz....just a thought.
ReplyDeleteHow any of you noticed one minor thing about this season or past episde.
ReplyDeleteChuck is suppose to be a part of a NSA/CIA joint operation.
In every season they would make a couple of mentions that Casey is an NSA agent not CIA.
All this season it's been CIA this and CIA that.
I think they should at least make a quick mention again that Casey and Beckman are NSA not CIA.
Just for the sake of some continuity.
It's a minor thing but come on.
Magnus has said numerous times the baby is Sarah's.
ReplyDeleteMagnus,
ReplyDeleteRegarding you writing about 21 days of Chuck until the finale.
You should do that article about the music on Chuck that you've been talking about.
I am going to save things like music and quotes for after the series finale. That way I can include everything from the entire series in my analysis and take serious time with it.
ReplyDelete"Magnus has said numerous times the baby is Sarah's."
ReplyDeleteHave I?
" Have I?"
ReplyDeleteOnly sarcastically on the latest podcast that I can recall, but sarcasm is lost on some.
Jim
Yeah I went back to the last Dear DR and nowhere does it say the child is Sarah's. Nice trolling :)
ReplyDeleteI still dont even see how that would be possible considering the timeframe. That baby is really young, so when would she have had 9 months to have it? Sorry to bring logic here but it cant be hers
ReplyDeleteJT
While I think it's unlikely the baby is Sarah's, the age of the baby in the promo is irrelevant as it's most likely a flashback.
ReplyDeleteJim
Gina,
ReplyDeleteYou have to read between the lines.
Does Magnus have to say point blank that the baby is Sarah's for everyone to believe it.
Does he have to spell it out for everybody.
I'm not a troll.
Happy New Year Gina.
I'm not even going to interject. This should be fun.
ReplyDeleteThe stuff with the small baby is definitely a flashback. Just look at the length of Sarah´s hair. It´s about the same length as it was for the Red Test flashbacks. But she could have worn her hair that long for longer. She definitely did not wear it like that since the show started.
ReplyDeleteI think I do remember some casting news for the episode, that sounded very relevant to the baby. But I can´t find it again and I am not sure, if it is ok, to post stuff here, that might spoil a lot.
I know Chuck lives on plot holes you can drive a whole city through but come on! Even a show that plays this loosely with the mythology could not lose 9 months where no one notices Sarah is pregnant....unless this becomes Lost or Fringe and Sarah either had a baby in another universe or there was a time slip and everyone but Sarah lost 9 months.
ReplyDeleteAlso her handler said in the promo....you think you could hide her? Why would Sarah need to hide her baby? Or hide it from an agent when she could kill him? Or any other reason that makes more logical sense than it not being her baby.
Plus the baby looked a lot older than a new born...it looked like a year old and so that cuts into her timeline even more.
Let's go through her timeline:
2007 til present been with chuck.
1999 was in high school.
2000 to 2003 was at harvard.
2005 to 2007 was with Bryce.
2004 did a year with secret service.
Maybe between 2004 and 2005 she was with the cat squad....
There is no time in there for her to have a baby. Logic says the baby is a Macguffin where it is just a piece of information used to convince Sarah that it is ok to leave the spy biz and start a family with Chuck.
I'm going to take DR at his word. he has said many times he would never reveal a huge spoiler. i think sarah having a kid would be a huge spoiler.
ReplyDeletetw0073
Unless it is a Mad Men kind of thing and people just thought Sarah went through a period of weight gain. But I think she has been hot the whole time so there goes that theory.
ReplyDeleteOoh if we are going to really go crazy how about Sarah has a twin and that twin is the sister she mentioned in season 1! Oh man Sarah was pregnant and her sister took her place as a trained spy who speaks multiple languages and has the exact skillet for 9 months so Sarah could give birth to her and her handlers baby! That's right....the baby is Sarah and her handlers! Dun dun dunnnnnnnnn!
ReplyDeleteIt would be from a flashback, but Sarah having a baby would go against the storylines the writers for Chuck usually go. For them to throw a wrench like that a few eps before the end of the series would be very uncharacteristic
ReplyDeleteJT
Wait I can top that....Sarah does not want a baby because that would show she cannot have them because she is not human...she is a cyborg sent from the future to stop chuck from procreating because his future off spring is the leader of the resistance against the war against machines known as terminators. But she was a cyborg that malfunctioned and now thinks she is human.....ooooohhh!!!!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteThe storyline doesn't have to make sense.
ReplyDeleteThe baby can both be hers and not, and totally make sense.
ReplyDeleteSarah was at Harvard?
ReplyDeleteSarah is superwoman....she did what superman did in one of the movies, she had the baby then flew with it out of earth and let it float in orbit while she flew around the earth spinning it back and reversing time by 9 months and then returning as if nothing happened!
ReplyDelete"It can be hers and not"....if she adopted it then yeah that makes sense. It is hers but not biologically.
ReplyDeleteI don't know if the writers can make the baby be hers and make sense.
ReplyDeleteGiven the timeline and everything.
If she had a baby you'd think a lot of people would know about it.
Shaw knew about it and he must have known about it because he read her file or flashed on it.
Which means other people would have had to have known Sarah had a baby.
The CIA would have had to have known.
Not necessarily.... If she adopted it then it would be hers and yet not hers biologically. Also shaw may have known about it via research that the CIA may have not had time to put in. Remember shaw had two years to do the leg work.
ReplyDeleteI got it.
ReplyDeleteSarah took a leave of absence for a few months from the CIA back in 2006 and that's when she had the baby.
That makes sense to me.
I hope the baby is not Sarah's.
ReplyDeleteIt would just be too confusing for the writers to try and fit that in.
Not to mention the never ending whining that the crazy Chuck fans are going to do after seeing the episode.
That doesn't make it worth it for me.
Man.....anonymous do you even read the comments? What do you object too? It being Sarah's biologically or non biologically?. If it is not biologically hers then why would that taint her character if she saved a life of a child? If it is hers biologically ....which based on the timeline makes no sense....she may still have had to protect the child. Either way Sarah has been in a very dangerous business her whole career, saving the life of a child is a great thing to do.
ReplyDeleteThe line that does get me and I think sepinwall alluded to it is the whole chuck I cannot tell you something....he does not seem keen on the character regression for the sake of a weak plot. Someone called that chuck writers like to have one character do something stupid so they can balance it out with another stupid moment. So maybe chucks was 5.06 so that Sarah can have 5.08 and it be totally fine with the fans.
ReplyDeleteThat's not what i'm talking about.
ReplyDeleteI don't think you understand what i'm getting at.
I've read every single comment.
I'm talking about if Sarah has had a baby in her past the crazy shippers will start whining and all that.
I find the crazy shipper fans unbearable when they start whining about things they don't like about Chuck.
Since that's what will happen if they reveal Sarah had a baby in her past it's not worth it.
My own personal feelings about it is just that it wouldn't make sense from a continuity stand point
I don't give a damn about Sarah being tainted or having a baby at all.
Try to keep up Gina.
I would not worry about crazy shippers. They are the type of fans who are never satisfied......so never worry if they are.
ReplyDeleteThere is a review on another site that just bash this episode because they could not see past their shipper hate. They say they are not crazy shippers yet admit they hate Shaw because he got in between Chuck and Sarah and other stuff.
ReplyDeleteGina I know what review you are talking about.
ReplyDeleteI'm not going to defend them, since i find their criticism often over the top, but what you said is just not true. They hate Shaw character, because to service his character they make stupid plot moves and make other characters act stupid around him.
They also seem to generally dislike characters acting like idiots for the sake of the plot. And recently they dislike more and more BDHM (Big Damn Hero Moment) for Chuck, because every time he has it, Sarah and/or Casey have to be damseled or put out of action in other ways.
Siemon
@Gina
ReplyDeleteNot everybody is going to have the same opinion. People watch for different reasons and with different lenses.
It´s about what you expect and how much something bothers you. There always are big plotholes in Chuck. It didn´t make much sense, that Shaw still had the intersect and could blackmail Decker, who seemed to be very willing to murder people. Shaw was a sitting duck in jail for two years. Decker could easily have disposed of him.
There are logical problems in just about every Chuck episode. If I like it, I am usually able to overlook them. That´s probably true for most people. If other things feel wrong on top of that, it just piles up. There is something like a tipping point. I still like reading other people´s opinions, because sometimes I miss things or hadn´t though about possible explanation.
I didn´t mind the logical flaws with Shaw, because I thought he was a very believable danger and he had ample reason to hate both Chuck and Sarah. So having him behind the conspiracy, was a much much better solution than everything I expected. And Routh´s performance was really good.
This conspiracy felt very tacked on in Cliffhanger and was obviously put in there, because they thought this might be it and they wouldn´t have to follow through. A perfect solution wasn´t really possible. So I thought this was a really good way to resolve it.
It doesn´t really matter, what other people thought. You can just have your own opinion.
I enjoyed it despite the flaws, I thought it had.
Magnus, your Icelandic Christmas song was awesome. Really enjoyed that. The podcast was fun. Sorry, that I hadn´t yet commented on it.
And it looks as if Chuck really did get the 1.0 rating. So that´s great. I hadn´t expected that.
Your comment about two people dying made me think, they might actually kill off Ellie and Awesome. And then give Clara to Chuck and Sarah. That would be pretty dark, though.
If I remember correctly Old Darth had very similar problems with the show they have. (although centered around other characters)
ReplyDeleteSiemon
i really don't understand how people can still freak out over Sarah keeping things hidden from Chuck
ReplyDeleteshe did that since the beginning and she will keep doing that because that's the nature of their relationship
Sarah can keep things to herself while she expects 100% honesty from Chuck
Personally i would love to see Chuck grow a pair and say something about it
Although more likely he will just go in puppy dog mode(like always)
Sounds like an idiotic review.
ReplyDeleteAwelle, thanks.
ReplyDeleteYou can always check it out and form your own opinion.
ReplyDeleteSiemon
Erm...Sarah has a lot of things to be ashamed of...more than Chuck.
ReplyDeleteSarah's worst sins are conning charities not just the rich. She has used different names her whole life and we may never know just how bad she has gotten in her earlier years. Sarah has also killed a ton of people and it has been implied that she burned assets a lot and when meeting Chuck for the first time (Nacho Sampler) did not seem like at that particular moment she would care about doing it again.
So yeah...Chucks worst sins to him is getting kicked out of school and letting his life slide or getting duped by Jill a bad person anyway.
Chuck has no reason not to care if he tells people what he has or has not done that makes him feel bad. But Sarah telling the love of her life all the things she has done? I guess that would mean she really does not want a chance of hapiness if she intends on keeping her husband sleepless forever.
I understand it makes their relationship totally lopsideded....but I guess it can be explained in Cougars that Chuck just gave her a pass and we should too. See! A character trait we love...Chucks sincerity...comes back to bite us in the bum! It was a perfect moment at the end of Cougars and means we really have no right to know more about Sarah because Chuck said he does not need to know.
As for Old Darth, he has his opinions and is free to have them. But it all comes down to what your limit is. Old Darth on his own website and podcasts is defending Fringe until the bitter end even though they have clearly run out of creative steam and pulled the biggest reset in network history. Yes Chuck's payoffs maybe lame or not fit or not be perfect in any way or form...but at least they make some attempt to give them...Fringe just side stepped all of their story and reset the whole series. The fact that he still sticks with Fringe makes me dubious of his arguements, even if they are right or wrong.
"You can always check it out and form your own opinion."
ReplyDeleteCheck out what? The review? Why would I ever subject myself to such lunacy?
I think my last point might be the whole thing with stories. I mean Sepinwall and Fienbergs last podcast states that very point of view. Fans think that all shows should be Breaking Bad or Mad Men and if they do not payoff everything in a consistent or logical manner than the shows have wasted their time. They also said that the loudest fans on the internet have the defining voice.
ReplyDeleteI think a fans limits on things will always have a bearing on the overall quality. I love this show and can admit that I am biased and have a high threshold for the crap they pulled. I loved Lost even though they pulled lots of crap.
I mean they said last episode that Chuck did not show the same emotions for Sarah in peril that he did for Ellie..I put it as he knows Shaw and what Shaw is capable of and knows the type of revenge he wants and he did not know last weeks enemy and so was in the dark a little. Plus Sarah is a spy and Ellie is not and so has hope that Sarah could last untill he gets to her....but again certain fans milleage varries on the BS they are willing to take if they hate certain things.
That is why I quit Fringe, I love Josh Jackson (who does not?) and man has that decision been easy.
He knows Sarah is a capable spy. Ellie is not. It is very simple.
ReplyDeleteHave you heard anything about the dvds? Release date or any decent extras?
ReplyDeleteAlso with Shaw what he did in Other Guy...he wants to take pleasure in killing either Chuck or Sarah...he wants them to suffer while he is doing it. Why have Sarah conscious while he threw her into the river? Why leave her conscious and almost dead while watching in pain emotionally and physically while he kills a man that means everything to her? From his point of view Sarah was almost dead and he was going to use the remaining time he thought she had left in hurting her more. But again he was just not as smart as Chuck, their whole review was that their anger towards Shaw tainted the whole story.
ReplyDeleteDiffrerent stokes for different folks. The world does not beat to the same drum what might be right for you may not be right for some...different stokes for different folks...what you talking about willis?
Oh what fun.
Sue, no clue.
ReplyDeleteI never ever recommend something on a site that does not belong to me but please DR bare with me...it is so worth it. Please listen to Fienberg's and Sepinwall's latest podcast on the worst shows of 2011...it is so funny that I am in tears right now on just how well they nail especially H8R. I mean it is so funny that it makes me appreciate shows that I watch all the more, lol.
ReplyDeleteI thought this was a good, but not great episode. It's was to similar too the previous encounters with Shaw. Take out Sarah to have Chuck have his heroic moment.
ReplyDeleteI also found Chuck basically showing no concern for his wife a bit jarring. And also Chuck forgetting to buy her a Christmas present, WTF?
You don't have to recommend anything from Hitfix to me. I was one of the first people to register for that site. They're about the only site I read anymore.
ReplyDeleteGET OFF MY SITE CRAZY SHIPPERS!!!!
ReplyDeleteUnless you donated, then you can stay forever and say whatever you want.
ReplyDelete"It's not acceptable to make fun or Snookie online! and don't think it is! because if you try Mario Lopez will bleep you out!"
ReplyDelete:)
sorry..."of" instead of "or" and bleep you "up" not "out".
ReplyDeleteMy pure joy and tears of happiness made me miss those glaring mistakes.
Can you explain why Fedak is ok with violence but he wont allow hotness to be shown. Hypocrisy or what.
ReplyDeleteIt is his show.
ReplyDeleteHey, I might be crazy, but I'm not a shipper.
ReplyDeleteAs said my biggest gripe with the episode was that I didn't find it to be very original. It's basically Ring II with Ellie in the place of Sarah.
The rest is more nitpicks. I wish they had played Chuck a bit differently, but that have also to do with the glaring difference how Chuck acted last week. I also find it hard to believe Chuck would forget to buy a Christmas present.
He probably is like me and just doesn't care about it.
ReplyDeleteI don't care about two actors pretending to be all lovey dovey with each other.
If Chuck and Sarah have a passionate kiss or not it doesn't bother me either way.
Chris Fedak is probably the same way.
If Chris Fedak really wanted Zach and Yvonne to have more passion they'd play it that way.
Now a handful of fans on the internet it's like the number one thing about this show with them.
He probably would not have forgotten to get a present. But Sarah loves the bracelet or fans love to think she loves the bracelet and so maybe they were going for sentimentality. Maybe that sums Chuck up...he is not all diamonds (Cheap SOB) but he is all heart.
ReplyDelete:)
Maybe they were going for a metaphor for why she loves Chuck?
Ok even I do not totally buy that...Chuck stop being cheap brother!
"f Chris Fedak really wanted Zach and Yvonne to have more passion they'd play it that way."
ReplyDeleteZac and Yvonne are not characters on the show, crazy shipper!
" Ok even I do not totally buy that...Chuck stop being cheap brother!"
ReplyDeleteUnless that engagement ring he bought Sarah is a cubic zirconium a la Big Mike's, I think cheap is the last word you can use to describe Chuck.
Jim
LOL, only a crazy shipper can confuse the ACTORS with the CHARACTERS...
ReplyDeletefool...
"Sounds like an idiotic review."
ReplyDeleteIt IS. It came from people who want Sarah to kick ass ALL the time. But this show is called "Chuck." BTW, I liked Levi's performance very much; Chuck wasn't whiny, he was very focused and concerned about his plan and saving his wife.
Your review on the ep is WAY better. ;)
S.
Chuck didn´t forget to buy a Christmas present. He said he didn´t have time to finish or get what he had planned, because he was busy saving Sarah. And that was definitely more important.
ReplyDeleteHis not having a present didn´t bother me while I watched the ep at all. When someone brought it up first, I thought they could have used an emotional present to show his concern for Sarah, but thinking about that more, that wouldn´t have worked.
An expensive gift really wouldn´t show any deeper emotion or made that scene any less light. The bracelet actually was a very emotional token. The scene was still quite light.
So for me it was definitely not a gift and much less an expensive one that was missing there.
"Your review on the ep is WAY better. ;)"
ReplyDeleteI like you.
Chuck vs Sarah, who wins?
ReplyDeleteSarah. Come on.
ReplyDeleteJust being going back to Lost and looking through it with a critical eye. just watched parts of season 4, the finale and the start of season 5. Man I did not realise just how much effort they put into stalling dialogue and dragging stuff out like a long con. I loved it when I watched the show in the moment and never noticed but now looking at it more carefully...
ReplyDeleteLocke...what are you doing Ben (outside Orchid station).
Ben...Don't you know John....I have a plan.
Man I got to give Lost credit...they just put in the most insanely, brilliantly, tactifully ,sublime stalling dialogue on a show that I have ever seen. Man they were geniuses.
People get frustrated with Chuck and what Chuck the show does but man I think you just got to respect what they do and the timeframe and pressures they are under to do it. Yikes.
Yeah Sarah...no doubt. She just has to flash her assets and Chuck would just lose....and with a smile on his face as well.
ReplyDeleteIt would be interesting to see that potential "fight" between them. We'll see...
ReplyDelete"Sarah. Come on."
ReplyDeleteShe still has a ton more experience. And she has probably been training constantly since joining the CIA. At least she has been shown to do so since the show started. She was evenly matched with Casey in season 1. I think she even beat him, didn´t she?
However I did wanted to ask some things about martial arts. I just reread your review on GF and you mentioned that they had Chuck use some of Sarah´s moves, which is awesome. I wish we could have seen her training him. Them meeting up while running was fun. Thank you for sharing that. I have exactly zero insight into martial arts and would never have caught that.
Shouldn´t Shaw even without the intersect be somewhere on Sarah and Casey´s level? He is supposed to have been an agent for quite some time as well. And if that is true, is it realistic that Chuck, who I guess has been shown to train since the beginning of season 3 and might have kept some of that up even while having the intersect, would be a match for him?
Or was that more a case of Chuck being more motivated, Shaw being overtly confident because he thought he would have the intersect 3.0 or Shaw being rusty because of his prison stint?
In short how long and hard would Chuck have to train to be somewhere on the same level of Sarah and Casey?
It´s not terribly important, but I have no level of reference and you mentioned, that you have some knowledge of martial arts.
This is the CHUCK universe so I suppose learning martial arts would be the same as learning the guitar by knowing guitar hero, lol.
ReplyDeleteYou actually say you are a master martial artist. So I would be stupid to look for enlightenment elsewhere.
ReplyDeleteAnd you mentioned Lester´s line about not wanting to drink water, because fish have sex in it in the podcast. Or I think Wendy does. I wanted to comment on that and always forgot.
I loved that line. I laughed so hard at it, because my mother uses that reasoning to not drink water all the time. She really doesn´t like it. Maybe it is used all the time, but I had never heard anyone but my mother mention it and thus it was extremly funny for me to have Lester use that line. Also I very much enjoyed Jeff´s "Water can only dilute this feeling." very much as well. They really managed to use both of them pretty well in the ep and the Subway stuff fit in well with their scenes.
"Shouldn´t Shaw even without the intersect be somewhere on Sarah and Casey´s level?"
ReplyDeleteYup. Though, he may not have been training since he had the Intersect. As with anything, if you aren't constantly practicing it, you will slowly lose it. You know the saying "It's like riding a bike." Well, it isn't. It's more like riding a one wheeled bike. It takes you a little bit of time to get your balance back.
Still, Shaw should have kicked Chuck's arse all over the place. But do I care? Nope.
I don´t really care about that either. He could have stopped training or he could have been too cocky. And Chuck didn´t completely dominate him, it looked more like an even match to me.
ReplyDeleteI just wanted a frame of reference, because I seriously have none. Do you have any estimate on how long it would take someone in the real world to get to the level of people having trained and used martial arts for as long as Sarah or Casey have? Is it even possible to catch up like that?
I wouldn´t really mind, if the show would bend that either. I am just curious.
2-years of constant training. At least 10-hours of training per week. So, over 1,000 hours. But to become a true master, I would say 10,000 hours. Figure the Intersect is 10,000 hours worth of training.
ReplyDeleteOr maybe Chuck's love for Sarah is so powerful that it gave him the eternal power of a 1000 burning suns...and he beat Shaw that way!
ReplyDeleteI am going to go and have cheese on toast...get it?
Chuck has residual muscle memory from the Intersect.
ReplyDeleteNinja #1
Oooooh, our resident ninja is posting!
ReplyDeleteStill any information about the title missing?
ReplyDeleteSasha
There's no missing title. It's a hidden title. ;)
ReplyDeleteChuck versus the life and death of John Casey.
ReplyDeleteWhat do you mean by hidden? Do we already know it without knowing it? :D
ReplyDeleteSasha
"2-years of constant training. At least 10-hours of training per week. So, over 1,000 hours. But to become a true master, I would say 10,000 hours. Figure the Intersect is 10,000 hours worth of training."
ReplyDeleteThank you. That is really interesting. I would have thought of a much longer time frame. So Chuck could in theory be on Casey´s and Sarah´s level, if he never had the intersect and had been training for the entire run of the show?
"Chuck has residual muscle memory from the Intersect."
I like that. It make sense. He has used that Kung-Fu flash very much.
If Chuck trained every day for four years, he would still be a level below Sarah and Casey but he could stay alive in a fight with them.
ReplyDeleteThe Intersect "muscle memory" that Ninja #1 mentioned, should give him the edge even with only a year of training. Muscle memory is probably the biggest part in the defensive aspect of martial arts. Being able to instinctively block an incoming strike.
Learning to effectively kick and punch is also something that is important since your ability to quickly disable your opponent is important. In movies, fights last so much longer than they would in the real world. Two martial arts experts would probably only need a couple of punches or kicks to take out their opponent. It usually comes down to who gets the first good shot in first.
In the Chuck Vs. Shaw fight, Chuck got his shots in first. Perhaps it stunned Shaw for the rest of the fight.
First good shot in first? Terrible sentence.
ReplyDeleteSo Sarah against any male baddy that isn´t Shaw, would be a realistic time frame for a fight?
ReplyDeleteThe muscle memory part does make a lot of sense. I still hope, it doesn´t elevate Chuck to Intersect levels too fast. I really enjoyed him without the Intersect. I still prefer him using his quite impressive intellect for missions. I actually enjoyed the outsmarting Shaw part more than the fight. But it is definitely a good thing to have him be able to defend himself. And I guess he could do both. Sarah and Casey won´t be out for every episode, though. And it´s most enjoyable for me to have them work as a team.
Although, that could also work in other ways. I also enjoy Casey getting to use his experience or Sarah being the one to stay the most level-headed, like in Frosted Tips. And then there is also Ellie and the kitchen appliances. ;)
Also you have to remember the mental force that meditation gives an expert. Bruce Lee did the one inch punch with mostly his mind not his body! So Chuck might have been able to mentally with a mind fresh without the strain of the intersect be able to deliver harder and more deadly blows.
ReplyDeletePlus all his newlywed loving with Sarah released all the endorphins in his brain and gives him a clean sexually relaxed mind.
True. I never understood the whole "Don't have sex before a fight" thing that boxers used to talk about. I am always a more capable fighter after sex.
ReplyDelete"First good shot in first? Terrible sentence."
ReplyDeleteThe meaning was quite clear. And my sentences are probably a lot worse. I typed out a very long comment for your GF review on a pad and I didn´t post it, because I read through it and I had just used the same words over and over. I still have it saved. Maybe I can save it somehow.
I suppose the belief is that they would mentally lose the edge if they are relaxed in any way or form. But Chuck does things with his heart....Ok now I have to shoot myself for being too corny :)
ReplyDelete"I suppose the belief is that they would mentally lose the edge if they are relaxed in any way or form."
ReplyDeleteOr maybe Sarah was still secretly pissed at him after the stunt he pulled last episode and their newlywed loving wasn´t all that relaxing anymore?
...But maybe that´s just dirty. So back to your corny version.
So I typed out some long rambling question and accidentily deleted it. I hate that.
ReplyDeleteI haven´t really slept and instead stumbled upon some girls´ blogs. They posted mostly about entertainment and gender issues, mostly from a feminist perspective. And they really liked Chuck. It definitely isn´t perfect in that regard, as hardly anything is.
But I thought that Sarah really still is very much a strong female character, despite being used as eye candy quite often, which is pretty remarkable for a show created by men and aimed at young men. And it also used to have a relative high percentage of young males watching. The complaints about her character are mostly from people, who want her put more firmly in a tradtionally female role. I hope the show doesn´t end like that.
And while the show is centered around Chuck, he isn´t doesn´t really alway fill the traditionally male role in their relationship. So when it does subvert gender stereotyping and has Chuck fill the more traditionally female role (also the cause of lots of complaining), the relationship is actually is actually portrayed from that perspective.
Anyway it certainly doesn´t do that all the time, but you brought that up throughout as well and I was hoping you would feature gender issues in one of your 21 articles? I would really like to read your take on that in a post.
Yeah no doubt a top (ex)agent and a big man like Shaw should have kicked Chuck's ass all over the place under more normal circumstances, BUT these weren't normal circumstances, IMO; if you look carefully to the scene, I think it was suggested that Shaw was REALLY disoriented after losing the Intersect and especially after receiving the virus in his head. Then Chuck clearly took advantage of that I punched him really hard. It's the only logical explanation I can see, because Shaw was a really powerful oponent even without the Intersect as shown in Other Guy during their first fight with those knives.
ReplyDeleteOne thing that really bothered me was that Chuck apparently had no scratch on his cute face after that fight.. lol. Sarah too should have looked way worse. We should have seen some more blood. Oh well.
S.
Don´t forget Casey, who should have been much more affected as well.
ReplyDeleteHowever, that does happen all the time. I loved the few times, they did Sarah let Sarah stay a little bruised, though.
I don´t think they have ever really done that with Chuck.
Just watching Lost and....man they killed off a ton of people. Not to mention that their bruise makeup and other stuff was really good. I wonder what kind of budget they were on because everything looks so expensive. Chuck looks like it was made for the price of a packet of cigarettes.
ReplyDeleteMaybe the show cannot afford bruise or broken bone make up and so never bothers.
CHUCK's budget at the end was probably 1/4th of LOST's at its end.
ReplyDeleteIf not less. That's one of the reasons why LOST cut its episode count per season. It cost a lot to make the show.
ReplyDeleteYeah I thought so...with the huge cast of like 15 regulars per season and all the on location shooting...they must have racked up a huge bill. Plus all the on location shooting had to function for the entire world plus loads of other stuff like office buildings and hospitals and whatever.
ReplyDeleteIt is a shame that Chuck's budget is so low....pity no one thought it could match Lost for awesomeness. I think after season 2 and maybe 3 they could have done some cool stuff.
If only... but it didn't.
ReplyDelete